rodan Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 So, now it's through the firewall. I still have to assemble the bottom half, and make a bracket for it. I also need to get out the MS3 wiring diagram and start figuring how I'm going to marry the two. In its new (temporary) home: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0016_zpsqhvmhff0.jpg So, here's the before and after shots of the passenger side... still need to loom the wires once I get everything sorted... http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_9577_zps5ga8lm8y.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0014_zpsulwsci9w.jpg Getting there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy.B Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I wasn't even thinking track use really but that would be cool, lol. Moreso just something to mess around with that doesn't eat your entire wallet, fun to drive (my Legacy is fun but it's auto, it's large and cumbersome at times and will cost a good $1000 to get the suspension sorted plus $1200 in wheels/tires) Not to mention the cost of a header-back exhaust. Was thinking, keep the Legacy as the reliable commuter and get a Miata for a reliable trackday, weekend fun car. I think what I'm getting at is, I want something to mess with and if I oops something up, I'm not out of a ride to work Timothy.B's 2011 LEGACY 3.6R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I wasn't even thinking track use really but that would be cool, lol. Moreso just something to mess around with that doesn't eat your entire wallet, fun to drive (my Legacy is fun but it's auto, it's large and cumbersome at times and will cost a good $1000 to get the suspension sorted plus $1200 in wheels/tires) Not to mention the cost of a header-back exhaust. Was thinking, keep the Legacy as the reliable commuter and get a Miata for a reliable trackday, weekend fun car. I think what I'm getting at is, I want something to mess with and if I oops something up, I'm not out of a ride to work When the Miata first came out in 1989, I was into V8s and drag racing... I though 100hp, YGBFKM! Factory HP, even with the turbo MSM never went over 200, so I never really got interested, though I did test drive a couple over the years when we were thinking about convertibles. I didn't really get it until I drove my '92. I saw it at a local used lot, whose owner I've known for years. He also deals in bikes, and I was toying with the idea of trading the bike (my two up ride) for a convertible since my wife doesn't ride anymore. After driving it down our local mountain road, even with worn out stock suspension and three mismatched tires(!), I though... holy sh*t this thing is fun! I traded straight across for that bike, and haven't looked back. The car got me back on the racetrack on 4 wheels, and it has provided so much enjoyment for us, that we also bought another one that my wife drives everyday (a 2013). They're a crapload of fun, cheap to operate, easy to work on and the aftermarket is amazing and affordable. They're also amazingly capable... my P-car buddies hate me... There's a reason the Answer is always Miata. As a side note... looks like photobucket is down... none of my pics are showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy.B Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Yeah, the power is way down but that's not the point. They have a decent power to weight ratio, not to mention they're small and agile. My Legacy feels boaty compared to my Ford Focus that I used to drive. I miss a small, agile car at times. James May had said something like, "It's better to have a small car that makes you feel on edge all the time than to have a big powerful sports car that you can't do anything with on the public roads." I'm gonna need to test drive one of these... Timothy.B's 2011 LEGACY 3.6R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) I wasn't even thinking track use really but that would be cool, lol. Moreso just something to mess around with that doesn't eat your entire wallet, fun to drive (my Legacy is fun but it's auto, it's large and cumbersome at times and will cost a good $1000 to get the suspension sorted plus $1200 in wheels/tires) Not to mention the cost of a header-back exhaust. Was thinking, keep the Legacy as the reliable commuter and get a Miata for a reliable trackday, weekend fun car. I think what I'm getting at is, I want something to mess with and if I oops something up, I'm not out of a ride to work You will need a decent set of say koni/(some spring), but at a minimum, a coilover like the Tarmac Zero $1750. Add Rear adjustable lower control arms, anti-sway bar, and alignment for $1000. Race pads and fluid $400. Baffled oil pan which must be a custom one-off $600+ Thermostatic Oil cooler (there is no PNP version out there) $600+ and make sure your run a heavier oil...at least a 5w40. RL 10w40 would be ideal. Wheels/Tires $2000 minimum. Now, we are at $6350 assuming you do all the installs yourself. There is more you can add. This list is not a must, however, baffled oil pan, oil cooler and race pads are a must. A picture for the memories...my first track day with the 3.6R. In hindsight, I should have put that track day in the bag and not spent any more money nor tracked it again. If I remember correctly, Chris took this photo...thanks!!! I should have bought a car specifically for track use. Now, I have my WRX which is getting modded way beyond my original plans and may end up at the track and probably blow something. When that happens, I will get an econobox DD and just use the WRX for the track. Edited October 14, 2016 by fredrik94087 "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 A Miata can very easily eat your whole wallet and then some. It is really a matter of how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. I have a hard time spending a ton of money on mine because it was so cheap to begin with. The value of car to value of parts ratio has helped keep me in check. I'm also realistic, to a fault probably, on my expectations for the car and my ability to drive it. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I got the bike I traded for my '92 for free (long story), so mine was really cheap... for a while I was hesitant to spend $$, but then I just figured the car was free so what the hell... and parts are cheaper than just about any other trackable car out there. Hell, I just ordered $150 worth of electrical connectors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Here I am and it's raining, my top leaks and I still don't want to spend the 450 for a new top 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy.B Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 I was just referring to making the car more enjoyable to drive, not tracking my 3.6R, Fredrik But thanks for the tips in case I get to that point. My goal honestly is/has been to make this a grand tourer. Something quick on it's feet, good in the curves but relaxing enough to drive 500 miles across the country and not feel exhausted at the end of it. Forgot all about the baffled oil pans you need for track racing. I could only imagine the temps the oil gets to while tracking. I've seen it jumping over 101 during quarter mile runs on a hot day. The mods are slowly rolling in. Any car, sure, can eat away at your wallet. But from what I gather, smaller car, less expensive parts. I'm sure it's very easy to find a differential for a Miata than it is for a 3.6R, hahaha. Suspension is probably way cheaper as well. I don't know guys. I guess we'll see in this coming year what happens. Maybe I'll get this car to the point where I feel it's refined and will stop and begin saving towards a project car. Miata, maybe something crazy like an old 1st Gen Legacy turbo. Who knows. Chris, we'll get a GoFundMe for your new top You will need a decent set of say koni/(some spring), but at a minimum, a coilover like the Tarmac Zero $1750. Add Rear adjustable lower control arms, anti-sway bar, and alignment for $1000. Race pads and fluid $400. Baffled oil pan which must be a custom one-off $600+ Thermostatic Oil cooler (there is no PNP version out there) $600+ and make sure your run a heavier oil...at least a 5w40. RL 10w40 would be ideal. Wheels/Tires $2000 minimum. Now, we are at $6350 assuming you do all the installs yourself. There is more you can add. This list is not a must, however, baffled oil pan, oil cooler and race pads are a must. A picture for the memories...my first track day with the 3.6R. In hindsight, I should have put that track day in the bag and not spent any more money nor tracked it again. If I remember correctly, Chris took this photo...thanks!!! I should have bought a car specifically for track use. Now, I have my WRX which is getting modded way beyond my original plans and may end up at the track and probably blow something. When that happens, I will get an econobox DD and just use the WRX for the track. Timothy.B's 2011 LEGACY 3.6R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Got some connectors yesterday... http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0017_zpsifbl21k9.jpg And got the fuse/relay box completely reassembled today. Still waiting on another crimping tool. Time to start planning the pinouts for the MS3x -> engine harness connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silinc3r Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Well, bought a MS2 for the NA so when you are up and running I'll get to bother you about tuning!! Silinc3r's 05 SWP GT/Spec B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Well, bought a MS2 for the NA so when you are up and running I'll get to bother you about tuning!! At the rate I've been going... I'll probably be bothering you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silinc3r Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 At the rate I've been going... I'll probably be bothering you... Haha, I tend to go in spurts of insanity when it comes to mods. Sometimes months and sometimes like this week, in just 4 days I have to install new ball joints, front Spec B arms with new front and rear bushings, repair a boot on the pass axle, inner/outer tie rods and front sway end links, then alignment, get the ac charged, new wheels balanced and mounted all before the Gillman Subaru meet in Texas haha Silinc3r's 05 SWP GT/Spec B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hmmm that reminds me I should install my Miata R Type outer tie rod ends on my car I've had them for about 6+ months now... 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Plodding along... After a couple of (frustrating) weeks of trying to find someone nearby that still does sandblasting, I gave up and took a wire wheel to the dash support and shot some primer on it. Before: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_2065_zpswr2d0gpk.jpg After: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0018_zpskssapeo6.jpg I also cut off the center support bracket, as I will be doing something different. Temporarily re-installed in the car to work on wire routing: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0019_zpsef0g4lop.jpg The end goal, is something similar to this, except with a center panel for gauges, switches and to mount the MS3: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/preludeking1995/interior3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 AAARGH! had a long f'ing post typed out and lost it... More progress... A few days ago, I removed the factory support for the center console. Easy with a spotweld cutter... still need to grind the welds down, and hit it with a little filler and primer. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0024_zpsoyolztnq.jpg I'll be making a new support a little closer to the firewall. Gonna break this into a couple posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Started today freaking out a little, 'cause I couldn't find my MS3... spent about 1.5 hours tearing the house and garage apart looking for it. Finally realized my wife had dumped a bunch of crap in the box it was in and it was hiding in the bottom... that's what I get for leaving it in a closet for 6 months... I sat down with the wiring diagrams, my notes and the MS3 documentation, and mapped out my engine harness connectors, then started putting them together. I used two each of Weather Pack and Deutsch connectors, flipped male/female so there's no chance of connecting the wrong ones. Lots of cutting, stripping and crimping, and each connector used a unique crimping tool... http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0031_zpsurrn9ngm.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0032_zpsyj3mlo6t.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0033_zpsryuomcnf.jpg Engine harness pretty much done and loomed... http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Miata/VVT%20swap/DSC_0035_zps4ijnvura.jpg Still have some 'vacancies' for future expansion, and I still need to wire the condenser, which will be mounted on the engine. When I ordered the MS3, I had a choice between a 2ft or 10ft harness. I thought 10ft was ridiculous, so I ordered the 2ft. Of course, it's too short... Today I ordered some more harness wire so I can extend what I need to, so I'm stuck waiting for that to work on the other end of the harness. The connectors need to be installed after running the wire through the firewall, as neither connector will fit through the existing holes. I also ordered an AEM wideband/controller/gauge, so I can integrate that as well. Finally, when I removed the dash, I found it had several more cracks than I thought. I epoxied it together today in preparation for hacking it up... I used an aircraft grade epoxy that has worked very well for me on a variety of projects. Hopefully it will work on the dash plastic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm impressed that you would dive into something like this. Oil changes in my driveway is about it for me. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) All that wiring and the need to go back stock is why I plan to go PnP for my MS3 also i need to order my Happy Meal Clutch from FM on Friday Still can't believe a good clutch is $600 for a Miata Edited November 1, 2016 by Chris GTO TT 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyCrowbar Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Howdy! So I'll likely be buying a Miata for my wife after the holidays (probably an NA maybe NB if the price is right). Since we all also own Legacys, is there anything I should know coming from our POV rather than that of straight up Miata enthusiasts? Basic maintenance doesn't scare me (I drive a 4th gen after all) and my wife is in favor of a manual and possibly HPDE or autocross. P.S. if we end up with a 1.6 it's getting turbo, 1.8 could be a FI or stroker build. Not into swaps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 All that wiring and the need to go back stock is why I plan to go PnP for my MS3 Yeah, it would have made things a lot easier... also i need to order my Happy Meal Clutch from FM on Friday Still can't believe a good clutch is $600 for a Miata I know... crazy! That does include a flywheel, but, hell, I can remember buying Centerforce disc, PP and throwout bearing kits for 5.0's for under $200... Then again, a lot of the folks on this forum probably hadn't been born yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Howdy! So I'll likely be buying a Miata for my wife after the holidays (probably an NA maybe NB if the price is right). Since we all also own Legacys, is there anything I should know coming from our POV rather than that of straight up Miata enthusiasts? Basic maintenance doesn't scare me (I drive a 4th gen after all) and my wife is in favor of a manual and possibly HPDE or autocross. P.S. if we end up with a 1.6 it's getting turbo, 1.8 could be a FI or stroker build. Not into swaps. Prices on NAs are going up... if you want one, buy the cleanest 1.8 car you can. Don't bother with a 1.6 car. 1.8 has better brakes and more motor. If you can find a nice one, buy a car with a hardtop, they're getting harder to find, and are almost always cheaper with a car. That said, the best bargain right now is NBs, as they're hitting the bottom of the depreciation curve. NB is a better chassis, room for more tire, nicer interior, and will be a newer car. Miatas are pretty darn reliable stock, and you can beat on them at the track all day long. Do some suspension upgrades, leave the motor stock, and you can have a great time for cheap. They're generally very easy to work on, and the NA/NB interchangeability is great if you want to upgrade an NA with stock parts of a later car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Howdy! So I'll likely be buying a Miata for my wife after the holidays (probably an NA maybe NB if the price is right). Since we all also own Legacys, is there anything I should know coming from our POV rather than that of straight up Miata enthusiasts? Basic maintenance doesn't scare me (I drive a 4th gen after all) and my wife is in favor of a manual and possibly HPDE or autocross. P.S. if we end up with a 1.6 it's getting turbo, 1.8 could be a FI or stroker build. Not into swaps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'll sell you mine, You just have to ship it. NA 114K 1.6 miles all services done. And in the best color, Smurf Blue. Also checked the nose crank bolt and it is perfect. I replaced it with a new OEM one just in case when the timing belt was done at 80K. New clutch as well. --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 Prices on NAs are going up... if you want one, buy the cleanest 1.8 car you can. Don't bother with a 1.6 car. 1.8 has better brakes and more motor. If you can find a nice one, buy a car with a hardtop, they're getting harder to find, and are almost always cheaper with a car. That said, the best bargain right now is NBs, as they're hitting the bottom of the depreciation curve. NB is a better chassis, room for more tire, nicer interior, and will be a newer car. Miatas are pretty darn reliable stock, and you can beat on them at the track all day long. Do some suspension upgrades, leave the motor stock, and you can have a great time for cheap. They're generally very easy to work on, and the NA/NB interchangeability is great if you want to upgrade an NA with stock parts of a later car. This is exactly what I was going to say. Even though the NB2 Sport is the heaviest of the NA/NB cars its by far the best starting point for a street car/track car. If track is all you care about than a NB1 with the 6spd is the way to go as they are lighter with the same amount of HP. The biggest thing the NB2 gets you is the VVT motor, which delivers a very noticeable bump in mid range torque. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyCrowbar Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'll sell you mine, You just have to ship it. NA 114K 1.6 miles all services done. And in the best color, Smurf Blue. Also checked the nose crank bolt and it is perfect. I replaced it with a new OEM one just in case when the timing belt was done at 80K. New clutch as well. Remind me after the holidays and I may take you up on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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