Another Bilstein Outback story

[Rhitter]

Do you have measurements front and rear?

 

I need to figure something out for my rear springs. They are a little soft and with 4 people 2 dogs and gear I am basically riding on the bumpstops.

 

Thinking maybe king legacy raising springs or Rallitech overlord springs.

 

Not sure how any of those will match up with the Bilsteins HD though.

 

The progressive nature of the King springs appeals to me. + the rise spring might allow me to get rid of one of my spacers. I use 1.5 inches.

[Impatient]

OB2.5, I can't give you a definitive answer. But check out the picture in my post #24 on p2 of this thread. Each little square in the background is 1/2 inch. The bottom strut is a stock Legacy strut. If we assume the Bilstein HD has the same perch height, it is about 5.5" from center of the eye to the bottom of spring. The middle strut is a 00-04 KYB OB strut, which is approx. 3/8-1/2" higher than stock 05-09. Looks like about 7" perch height...1.5 inches higher than the Legacy strut. Which matches your spacer. The top strut is my Bilstein. You can kind of see the adjustment grooves. I think this pic was taken in the middle (3rd) groove, and appears to be 7.5" perch height. The grooves are ~7.5mm apart. So that is 15 mm from lowest. I'm on lowest setting now, but with different springs (BTS5056 springs). The spring height/stiffness also affects ride height. The Bilsteins shocks seem to have shorter shaft lengths than stock, but once you have loaded the car weight onto the strut, I'm not sure if that matters. If you put stock OBXT rear springs on your HD's, you would probably get more height. How much, is just a guess.

 

I don't recall if your rear springs are sedan or wagon, but stock USDM Legacy GT WAGON springs appear identical to USDM OBXT, but with 1 less wind. I'm not sure how much effective ride height or stiffness difference that makes. But, If I recall your picture of rear struts with spacer, it seemed the spring looked more sedan-like. Of course, it could be twice as stiff for all I know, but I recall thinking it looked "sedan-ish." Stock OBXT rear springs should be pretty stiff, but a beatch to put on the short Bilstein shaft. Shorter but stiffer springs might work well, but I have no magic formula for predicting ride height.

 

PS, did you cut or replace your rear bumpstops? If not, you are probably bouncing off of them. I need further trimming or replacing with Legacy bumpstops myself.

 

FWIW, on relatively smooth roads, I love the ride, no bobbing or wallowing. On rough roads, I hate the ride, crashing through the potholes and ridges. Frankly, I think Schneider owes each and every one of us a test drive .

[Rhitter]

I have JDM Spec B wagon springs on. I replaced my bump stops and replaced my rear upper control arm. So I think stiffer springs are my only option.

 

Don't really want to try jamming OBXT springs onto my HDs.

 

I can get King standard height legacy springs for about 250. So that's not too bad. Hopefully the progressive nature of the spring keeps the ride comfortable.

[xt2005bonbon]

I've read through most of this thread but either I missed it or it's not there:

 

I want to keep my OBXT to its stock ride height as much as possible. I currently have stock front strut/springs, and rear KYB 00-04 struts with rallitek overload springs. I still don't like the handling.

Would it be possible to install the Bilstein HD struts front and rear, combined with my current springs, and add a 1 inch lift kit to keep the ride height? Could it be that simple ?

[ssbtech]

The stock springs would be a terrible match for the HDs.

[xt2005bonbon]

The stock springs would be a terrible match for the HDs.

 

how about the overload rallitek with the HDs for the rear?

[ssbtech]

Keep in mind that the Bilstein HDs are sized for the Legacy, not the Outback. So I think you could probably rule out any Outback springs on those struts.

 

I have HDs, Spec B Wagon Pink springs and I think my front spacers are around 3/4" and my fender is at 27"

 

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i357/ssbtech/Bilstein%20bits/th_IMG_00000379_zps01a7c6cd.jpg

 

Rear spacers are nearly 2" and the fender is at 28"

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i357/ssbtech/Bilstein%20bits/th_IMG_00000378_zps38b96579.jpg

[xt2005bonbon]

thanks for providing your measurements. So you have an OBXT and basically tried to achieve what I want (better handling while keeping ride height) ?

 

Isn't the ride harsh? I have another obxt that is lowered with bilstein HD and sti pink springs (that's what the previous owner said). Excellent handling but man it is harsh .

 

Have you done some light offroading with this set up? If yes, how did it go?

 

In the meantime, I'll go measure my current setup.

[ssbtech]

No, I wanted it lower without looking like a lowered car.

 

Yes, the ride is quite harsh with that setup. Other users reported it was comfortable and smooth, but the roads here are somewhat rough with all the construction that's been going on. I haven't done any off-roading with it nor do I really plan to.

[Rhitter]

I have an OBXT with Bilsteins and JDM SpecB wagon springs (OEM JDM springs not pinks). Ride isn't harsh at all. However, I am a lot lower than an OBXT even with spacers.

 

I have .75 inch spacer in the front and 1.5 inch spacers in the back.

 

I am at 27.5 inches front and 27.75 inches rear on stock Outback seized tires.

 

Where the Outback is really let down is shocks. No one really seems to make an option for them. You might be able to modify Koni inserts into them to maintain ride height and pair them with other springs

 

have you looked into King springs?

 

Here is what Rallitek and Primitive said

Rallitek

Our standard height springs are made to fit the legacy struts. They are

actually our stiffest option for your car at 355 pounds per inch of

compression. You may not need to run the rear spacer that you are using

right now with our rear standard overload spring.

 

Primitive

We have the all the Subaru King Springs and have the KSRL-29 currently in stock. Likely keep your OB Wagon at about current lowered height

I have nothing really for the front in std or lowered.... maybe a 2008 Impreza RAISED spring for std height or an Impreza STD HEIGHT SPRING to drop you a bit

[ssbtech]

Are your wagon springs the pinks?

 

I'm using the 33021010 up front and the 38021010 in the rear. <- edited to link to springs, Japanparts' search isn't very good...

 

Here's a short clip of driving around twon with the HDs and pinks:

 

http://youtu.be/ZXnyHIKs2-s?t=1m5s

 

The noise you hear is the car rattling around (and camera shaking a bit) not the suspension. But the suspension sure shakes the heck out of the car.

 

Yes, I did trim the internal front bumpstops and replace the rears with Legacy stops.

[xt2005bonbon]

have you looked into King springs?

 

No I haven't. Maybe I should..

 

Are your wagon springs the pinks?

 

 

Who? me? the previous owner said 'sti pink springs wagon specific'. these are on my lowered 06 obxt.

 

 

For my other 05 obxt (stock height), I just went and measured (never done it before) the front/rear heights: I have about 29.5 in the rear on both sides, 27.75 on FL, and 28.5 on FR What the heck!

 

So, apart from coilover set ups, provided I want to use the HDs for my car, what solution would you suggest assuming I want to keep ride height and avoid harsh set up?

[Impatient]

Bonbon, good luck. The unfortunate truth is there are very few proven options.

 

If you have the bucks and patience, there are those Bilstein BTS 5056 kits. You may want spacers if you need that very last inch of ride height. (I assume the BTS has softer valving than my HD's & faux-HD's, but no first-hand knowledge of such....and evidently, neither does Bilstein USA).

 

The one thing I can't recall anyone trying is to use Spec B struts/shocks, some sort of wagon springs, and add spacers as needed. Spec B valving is quite a bit softer than HD's. And/or, start with HD's, and get Bilstein to revalve them softer. Somewhere between HD & Spec B. But that sure sounds like a lot of trouble.

 

Also I am surprised no one has bought Legacy Koni's, added traditional spacers in the rear, and some sort of internal spacer in front, inside cut & gutted Outback struts.

[Impatient]

OB2.5XT, do your rear tophats look like this?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141714&thumb=1&d=1360561643

 

These are what JDM BTS kits require, so I sort of assume all JDM wagons use these (or maybe only Outback/Lancaster). They take a narrower spring, and add a bit of height.

 

Or are they the std USDM design?

[ssbtech]

I can't speak for him, but mine use the OEM USDM tophats.

[xt2005bonbon]

Huge sigh...

 

K so let's say I get HDs with whatever springs I can find that fits the HD fine. And let's say it's OK if the ride is harsh.

 

How high can I go with this set up? Or how close to stock ride height can I achieve?

[Rhitter]

Same std OEM USDM design I think

 

This is the kit I bought

 

http://www.fredbeansparts.com/bilstein-subaru-legacy-gt-suspension-conversion-kit.html

[Rhitter]

No I haven't. Maybe I should..

 

 

 

Who? me? the previous owner said 'sti pink springs wagon specific'. these are on my lowered 06 obxt.

 

 

For my other 05 obxt (stock height), I just went and measured (never done it before) the front/rear heights: I have about 29.5 in the rear on both sides, 27.75 on FL, and 28.5 on FR What the heck!

 

So, apart from coilover set ups, provided I want to use the HDs for my car, what solution would you suggest assuming I want to keep ride height and avoid harsh set up?

 

I think 2 inches of spacer is all that I would feel comfortable with. I am not sure that I have seen body lift spacers larger than 2 inches in the Subaru world.

 

Edit: Rallitek has stated they are developing a standard height front spring for the Outback.

 

Spec B front springs with Legacy GT wagon rear springs and HDs would probably give a ride similar to a BMW non-sport package.

 

Edit 2:

The Bilstein BTS kit is only $1400 + $160 shipping right now from Japanparts

 

https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/22314

 

If I was to do it over. I think I would probably just get that. It's about 200 more than what I paid for my setup.

[xt2005bonbon]

thanks for the info OB2.5XT. Yeah the kit is tempting at this time..

 

I had another thought in mind though... How about the stock edm outback struts/springs? I'd be guessing they'd be better than usdm and cheaper than the JDM bilstein.

[Rhitter]

thanks for the info OB2.5XT. Yeah the kit is tempting at this time..

 

I had another thought in mind though... How about the stock edm outback struts/springs? I'd be guessing they'd be better than usdm and cheaper than the JDM bilstein.

 

Don't a lot of the EDM models have self leveling suspensions? Also they are an inch lower than the USDM models.

 

That's about all I know about them.

[xt2005bonbon]

I think that the EDM version is basically about the same height as the BTS kit. I believe the BTS kit is supposed to be a direct replacement to the EDM version. And yes, the rears OEM EDM are self-leveling, although I am not sure what that really entails. I'll try to find out how much it'll cost me to import the OEM EDM kit from Europe.

 

Here is a picture I found of the OEM EDM shocks (see below on one of the pics).

 

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/269723_505366712810915_1807762934_n.jpg

 

Stock ride height

 

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/555514_10151319439891038_156681883_n.jpg

 

Stock ride height

 

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/376607_505367322810854_552157258_n.jpg

 

In progress

 

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427525_505367472810839_1274716916_n.jpg

 

Stock parts removed, note those fat OEM rear self-leveling shocks

 

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427522_505367952810791_19919702_n.jpg

 

Front Koni inserted (Using EDM Legacy 2.0R OEM front strut body. The spring perch is 3.5cm lower than ones on EDM Outback struts)

Currently stock Outback 3.0R springs are used, may change to STI pinks later...

 

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378212_505788016102118_75249069_n.jpg

 

Rear Koni for Legacy "converted", note the two new grooves to hold the spring seat.

The rear suspension is now 3 way height adjustable (no more saggy butt, currently the middle groove is being used)

 

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/264831_505368382810748_1280529116_n.jpg

 

Bright Taxi Yellow Paint, I did it myself...probably not worth the effort IMO...all that work just to snap this picture...

 

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/468059_10150899066941038_64287834_o.jpg

 

JDM S402, yes, its from a S402!! rear suspension trailing arms, from one of 402 Subaru S402s ever made in the world!!! (PS: they are identical to Spec B units anyway)

 

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/280274_10151294792086038_656016885_o.jpg

 

JDM Legacy GT Spec B aluminum from control arm with JDM ZEROSPORT LCA bushing installed

 

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/190089_505788056102114_1974176170_n.jpg

 

Toyo T1-Sport rubber 225/40/19...replacing much loved Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 245/40/19, used less than 10K miles because they rub after lowering :/

 

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/558240_505368466144073_1886911207_n.jpg

 

Looks like it now means business

 

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/418176_505368939477359_1826452363_n.jpgwww.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=505368939477359&set=oa.458196790867212&type=1

 

About 1.5 inch drop after

 

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217609_10151327265976038_1735722837_n.jpg

 

Lookin Pimp!