Another Bilstein Outback story

[BAC5.2]

The last four digits are just model indicators, I think. I bet there is some difference in the free-length, though probably minimal.

 

All Pinks are 5kgf/mm front, and 4kgf/mm rear.

 

Also, I mis spoke. I'll edit my post, but the spring part number for the Spec-B and non Spec-B are the same. I.e. the ST2033021010 is the PN for the MT wagon AND the Spec-B wagon. I guess I hadn't realized that before. The rear springs, however, ARE different for the Spec-B and non Spec-B. The ones I have are non Spec-B springs.

 

As for what I'll get, it wont be for at least a year. Until then I'm riding my bike to the train stop to get to work, and then we move overseas for a year. In all likelihood we'll get an Explorer Sport (with the EB V6) and I'll drive our Impreza until it dies.

[ssbtech]

I did LCA and steering rack bushings a couple of years ago and they made a noticeable difference in cleaning up the slop from the front end on twisty back roads. Certainly not "night and day" but every bit helps. A bit of steering slop is still there but that's all-weather tires for you.

[ssbtech]

Ok, I've ordered some pink to go with my yellow. To go on my red. Good thing there are wheels and tires hiding my pink and yellow

[Impatient]

OB2.5 & Bac, thanks! I think I am about 1" higher, more or less, but without any spacers. Wouldn't mind being 16.zero front, 16.25 rear. Trying to figure out how. They need to make an Outback pink .

 

I have the same front struts as you do (HD's right?) but my springs are evidently longer and/or stiffer. In back, I can easily lower (adjustable perch).

 

I did get a set of Bilstein BTS-5056 springs; not mounted them yet. I wonder how different they are from the JDM Rev C. Spec-B Wagon springs OB2.5 has. The fronts look similar to USDM LGT Auto fronts, but maybe slight thicker wire (or thicker paint). Not much longer

[ssbtech]

Quick upper spring mount/tophat question.

 

When I stick the old tophat onto the strut and place the tophat over top, the tophat doesn't appear to be sitting down low enough.

 

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i357/ssbtech/tophat_zps5d3625b1.jpg

 

Photo on the left shows the tophat with no upper spring perch. The second photo shows the tophat with the perch below. You can see where it sits a bit high.

 

Then of course if I put the conical washer between the upper perch and the tophat it sits right up with no centering of the bearing at all.

 

EDIT: Duh.. no need for the conical washer for the SpecB top hats due to the diameter of the bearing.

 

Still concerned about the bearign sitting up a bit high on the shaft like that. Seems like rigidity is compromised a bit.

[ssbtech]

Springs showed up today!

 

Ok, another question.

 

The P/N for the front upper spring perch is listed on opposedforces for the 2005 Outback as being 20323AG00A. (This P/N is in effect from Nov 2003 to Sept 06)

 

From Sept 06 onwards, it changed to 20323AG00B. This is the same P/N listed for the Spec B.

 

When searching Subaruparts.com for the 20323AG00A part, it turns up the B part.

 

I'm assuming that it was just a part number change and not an actual part design change, but I wanted to see if anyone else had an idea.

 

 

I don't have a spring compressor handy, but when I sit the spring down on the strut loosely the center of the top of the spring is not aligned with top of the strut. I'm assuming that when compressed it will line up? The angle and position of the upper perch seems "off" but I'm not sure if this will change when the spring is compressed.

 

Thanks.

[Impatient]

Bolt length: I think a washer on top of bearing (under the nut) is called for. Re tophat p.n.'s, I've never seen an "A", only the later "B's".

[Danteneon]

Springs showed up today!

 

Ok, another question.

 

The P/N for the front upper spring perch is listed on opposedforces for the 2005 Outback as being 20323AG00A. (This P/N is in effect from Nov 2003 to Sept 06)

 

From Sept 06 onwards, it changed to 20323AG00B. This is the same P/N listed for the Spec B.

 

When searching Subaruparts.com for the 20323AG00A part, it turns up the B part.

 

I'm assuming that it was just a part number change and not an actual part design change, but I wanted to see if anyone else had an idea.

 

 

I don't have a spring compressor handy, but when I sit the spring down on the strut loosely the center of the top of the spring is not aligned with top of the strut. I'm assuming that when compressed it will line up? The angle and position of the upper perch seems "off" but I'm not sure if this will change when the spring is compressed.

 

Thanks.

 

The part is just updated for some reason, not changed at all.

 

As far as alignment goes, Once you have the perch and the lower coil turned to the correct position (use your current struts as examples) the spring will stand pretty much straight. I was wondering the same thing when I did mine.

[ssbtech]

Thanks.

 

Once the upper mount is on and tightened down, is it normal for one side of the spring to be under more tension than the other? In order to center the top of the spring with the top of the piston rod, the lower side of the spring rises up a bit out of the lower mount.

 

I'm sure that's as clear as mud...

[Danteneon]

I think I know what you are saying. If you have the bottom end of the spring coil sitting in the notch of the strut and the upper coil is centered, the other side of the lower coil is sitting up off the strut. That is normal. It will sit flat once the strut is assembled.

[ssbtech]

Ok, that makes me feel better. I wasn't sure if it was an indication that the spring wasn't being evenly compressed or if that's even a problem.

 

I over think these things

[ssbtech]

Ok, more questions from a total n00b.

 

Removing the studs pressed into the tophats - what's the proper method? I have longer bolts to go in for the spacers.

 

I may need to replace/cut the bumpstop in the front struts. What's the torque spec on the nut that holds the lower end of the piston rod in the strut body?

 

Thanks.

[ssbtech]

:tumbleweed:

[Rhitter]

I thought someone would reply. You hit them with a hammer / mallet. I had installed my steering rack bushings and I had the "bushing removal tool" and I put the open part under each of the studs and just tapped them with a 5 pound mallet. It's pretty easy.

 

So basically you need a hammer and a strong cylinder that fits around the head of the bolt so you can bash it out.

 

no idea on torque spec.

[ssbtech]

Thanks

 

Did you cut/change the bumpstop in the front struts?

[Rhitter]

I didn't. I lowered to about Legacy height (then raised it up with spacers) so I didn't feel the need change out the front bump stops.

 

In 2 years or so I haven't felt like I made a mistake there.

[ssbtech]

Squeezed the studs out of the tophat with a socket and a vise.

[Impatient]

Tidbit of info for anyone interested in the Bilstein approach:

 

I just swapped front springs. Gone are the slightly cut OBXT front springs. Now have BTS (remember Schneider?) front springs with US-available Bilstein HD's. Now lower (3/4"???) Seems to be working well. If I had to compare the front BTS springs with US-available springs, I would say they are pretty similar to Legacy GT auto springs. POSSIBLY stiffer, but could even be identical (except color). I have a 5-speed OBXT. I once ordered LGT auto springs, but returned them. But I remember they have an extra 1/4 wind compared to the LGT 5-sp front springs. I never mounted the LGT auto springs, but I mounted LGT 5-spd springs, on different (softer) struts. The BTS springs with the HD struts seems to work better (stiffer spring? & stiffer strut....seems good!!!!).

 

Now to get the rear up to snuff. May be months, not critical, since things are pretty good so far. If I can, would like to rebuild my rear JDM Lancaster Bilsteins to be equivalent to rear Bilstein HD's...would want more rebound control. So the option I would suggest is, if you are looking for ~ 1" drop for your OBXT, get LGT wagon auto springs F&R, mated to US-available Bilstein HD's F&R, but use substantial rear spacers...like maybe 1 inch??? whatever the difference is between HD height/length to lower spring perch vs stock OB...that's somewhere above (previous post).

 

2nd choice? rear KYB's????? The rear springs I am currently using are LGT wagon version...which are shorter tha OBXT springs, provide~ 1" drop with the JDM Bilsteins, with rear perch pretty high...somewhat close to 00-04 KYB's perch height....not 100% sure, been awhile.

 

TMI????

[Impatient]

also, secondary benefit: I haven't aligned but dialed max negative front camber and fixed an upper spring perch issue: make sure you don't use the beveled washer that goes between USDM upper perch and tophat, and make sure the upper perch is seated completely on the Bilstein rod. Mine were not well-seated before. So all seems better, but not 100% sure what is providing the most improvement (and things weren't that bad before): BTS spring, correct seating of the upper perch, or negative camber. Probably all of the above.

[BAC5.2]

You'd better align that thing PDQ. Toe is WAY out of spec now. Reserve any judgements of improvements for after your alignment.

[Impatient]

Yeah, I know BAC, but wanted a little street time to be sure I even wanted to keep the current setup. At most I've got 150 miles on it.

 

You were in DFW for awhile I think. Did you ever identify a shop you would trust for clutch or alignment or tune? Cobb is a long ways away in Plano (I'm in west Ft Worth), and they kinda botched a couple things last time (though they have a nice machine, and would obviously know Subarus. That said, I would love to have someone check the ECU tune). Bob Moore dealership(s) folded, leaving Hiley on the west end of Ft Worth's loop (convenient enough), and they are small enough that I am developing face recognition with there lead tech, FWTW. But not sure they will allow out of spec neg front camber (and they certainly didn't fix any ECU driveability issues when I asked them for help with that). That leaves Firestone, Goodyear, the idiots who did my last alignment (not getting my business again), etc; everyone around here know how to do Chevy or Ford pickups, but not one of them "furin jobs."

 

After 3 days of driving I haven't bottomed it, tho I ran it thru a mutha of a pothole. It said "ouch, stop that." I may be inclined to finally put the matching Cobb/Hotchkis FSB on. Right now its stock front, real Cobb RSB.

 

Again, any suspension relationships in DFW? (Max Capacity, I WILL check into your 2nd suggestion re the clutch)

[BAC5.2]

I'm still in DFW for another few weeks, and I also live near West Fort Worth. I didn't have my car here long enough to need to find a shop, really.

 

You could give AWD Tuning a shot, and they might be your best bet.

[Impatient]

If you're still around, my car is open to constructive criticism. See PM.

 

I can check out AWD Tuning, and Max Capacity's recomendation, and will in fact call Cobb, but if you are willing t drive it and pass judgement, I will try to meet up, and appreciate it....no matter what you end up saying about it.

[Impatient]

 

Took me awhile, but I finally had my rear JDM Bilsteins rebuilt by Bilstein. Allegedly they now match damping characteristics of the USA-available Bilstein HD's...although they are longer, more like Outback struts. So Bilstein HD's in front, and faux HD's in rear; "matched." With JDM Bilstein BTS springs F&R.

 

I'll get some pics up eventually, but it is substantially lowered, though looks very normal (close to stock Legacy?).

 

The extra rear rebound damping is a godsend!!!

 

While the rear shocks were at Bilstein getting rebuilt, I had 04 GR2's on the rear with LGT wagon springs. These Bilsteins are MUCH better, though the LGT spring with 04 GR2 strut was maybe 3rd best of all options I've tried (current = 1st, pre-rebuild rear Bilstein = distant 2nd).

 

I'm tired of messing with this, but couple more comments:

 

My rear Bilsteins have substantial ride height adjustment. Right now I am on the lowest (to better match the front ride height). One (7.5mm?) notch higher in the rear gave better ride characteristics IMHO, but looked a little too raked for my tastes. If I get the urge, I may buy front spacers (1/4 or 3/8 in?), and bump the rears back up 1 notch, but that puts me into a re-alignment and touching all four struts. Another option might be to put Spec B front springs on. Or to have the fronts revalved at 90% compression, give or take.

 

Sigh, the possibilities are endless.

 

Currently, my impression is the ride is a bit harsh on rough roads, but certainly controlled, and despite that, probably the best combo I have tried. Front HD's are part of the harshness. However, on smoother roads, its a dream. I'm sure Cobb RSB doesn't hurt, well, maybe on the rough roads. P.S. I NEVER bottom out in front, though may hit my chopped rear bump stops at the lowest ride height setting every now and then. (Dang now I want to try some change in front, and raise the rears back up 1 notch again.)

 

Now when I see a stock Outback, I think how "jacked-up" they look. (sorry, just my opinion).

[Impatient]

[ATTACH]

 

Why is uploading pictures so difficult????????????????????