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Brakes feel worthless


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Sorry should be:

 

Initial Bite; STS < HPS << HP+ (would you list as >>? )

High heat stability; STS > HP+ > HPS

Dusting; HP+ >> HPS =~ STS

Price; HP+ >> HPS > STS

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

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Newly acquired (old) LGT, driven it about 700KM now and what i've realized is that the brakes are really tough/worthless. What I mean is the amount of force I have to give the brake to get it to stop should not be that much.

 

For example, in my prev car, honda civic, If I applied the same force I'd be shooting through the windscreen!

I can get the LGT to stop If i need it to, but i'd have to muscle up my legs.

 

I'm using stock brake parts. Is this dead feeling a result of poor pads or the ballooning effect of the brake lines?

 

You can't compare a Civic to a LGT. There's a huge difference in weight.

 

In addition to doing a fluid flush, buying new pads and rotors as others have suggested, look at your tires. Your brakes can only work to the limit of grip your tires can provide. So if you have crappy all seasons, think about getting a nice performance summer tire. Even some of the better all seasons will work.

 

My autox setup (245 dunlop star specs, hawk hp+, centric blank rotors, stock lines, no mcb, fresh fluid flush every year) will give you that firm pedal and "put you through the windshield" feeling you desire.

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Thinking how some have a difference of opinion if the same pads are considered dusty or not: Is it possible the dusting comparison difference within the same brand/model is due to wheel design? How the air flows around the around/thru the wheel and also if the wheels are waxed (or coated)?
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Thinking how some have a difference of opinion if the same pads are considered dusty or not: Is it possible the dusting comparison difference within the same brand/model is due to wheel design? How the air flows around the around/thru the wheel and also if the wheels are waxed (or coated)?

 

Good point.

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

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Yeah, my cars are rarely clean. I put on 100+ lies a day so I build up grime and dirt easily.

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

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Thanks for the responses. I may be wrong to compare the lighter car with the heavier car but my driving style, coming from the civic, made me a bit cautious with the force i had to apply to get the car stopping.

 

I live in Jamaica, warm area all around. So I guess I could get some Stoptech or HPS then? I'm not sure if I should get stainless steel lines, I saw someone wrote on another forum that they didn't make u stop any better? True or false.

IF I do get them would getting the front lines only be enough?

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Thanks for the responses. I may be wrong to compare the lighter car with the heavier car but my driving style, coming from the civic, made me a bit cautious with the force i had to apply to get the car stopping.

 

I live in Jamaica, warm area all around. So I guess I could get some Stoptech or HPS then? I'm not sure if I should get stainless steel lines, I saw someone wrote on another forum that they didn't make u stop any better? True or false.

IF I do get them would getting the front lines only be enough?

 

Stainless Steel lines will not give you any extra "bite" in terms of braking, nor any better stopping distance. They prevent expansion of the rubber flexible lines by encasing them in stainless steel. We have found them to only be of marginal added value to a street driven car.

 

As for pedal feel, don't get misled by associating pedal feel with braking ability. A Chevy citation has a very stiff pedal, but does not have good braking ability.

 

For a street driven car, I would suggest the stoptech streets or the hawk HPS pads. They will give you good bite and longevity.

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

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Thanks for the responses. I may be wrong to compare the lighter car with the heavier car but my driving style, coming from the civic, made me a bit cautious with the force i had to apply to get the car stopping.

 

I live in Jamaica, warm area all around. So I guess I could get some Stoptech or HPS then? I'm not sure if I should get stainless steel lines, I saw someone wrote on another forum that they didn't make u stop any better? True or false.

IF I do get them would getting the front lines only be enough?

 

Correct. It also doesn't matter what pad you have, but if you brake hard and your ABS is activating, it means you have reached the limit of grip your tires can provide under braking (braking threshold). So, if your ABS regularly activates under hard braking, you can benefit from stickier tires. Performance tires WILL decrease your stopping distance.

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Correct. It also doesn't matter what pad you have, but if you brake hard and your ABS is activating, it means you have reached the limit of grip your tires can provide under braking (braking threshold). So, if your ABS regularly activates under hard braking, you can benefit from stickier tires. Performance tires WILL decrease your stopping distance.

 

Agreed, if you are getting into your ABS, then tires are the issue. That is the problem I have on my 335 now the oem all seasons with 27k miles force me into abs all the time.

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

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Verdict: Stoptech pads.

I will go with stoptech as I have hilly roads (long) that my warm my brakes easily. I think the Stoptechs ,based on what was written here, will make that the best option

 

Yup looks like your best option. :)

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

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  • 3 weeks later...
Got the stoptechs, skimmed my rotors, and guess what? Amazing difference.

 

I learned something that somehow missed me - all this time I HAD steel braded lines!

 

Glad to hear that! :)

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, After some days of using these brakes I must say there is something I observed that I do not like. THe Brakes fade, and fade quickly.

Going from 70 towards 0, by the time it hits 40 I have literally no feeling in my brake and the car isn't slowing as much.

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Stock JDM rotors. Car has 35K miles on it

 

I think you have all the suggestions anyone could offer short of a caliper upgrade. Make sure you have the right pads and maybe a MCB, and no air in the lines. This will make a world of a difference, provided you don't have the ABS coming on frequently from poor tire grip.

Updated parts list since original part-out here.

 

Original Full part-out of my LGT HERE!

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OK, After some days of using these brakes I must say there is something I observed that I do not like. THe Brakes fade, and fade quickly.

Going from 70 towards 0, by the time it hits 40 I have literally no feeling in my brake and the car isn't slowing as much.

 

When did you last flush your brakes? What fluid did you use?

 

We've actually tracked these pads and not had that much fade, at least not until we had done >20 laps of hard driving, so some of the suggestions of all kinds of other things like bigger calipers etc are a waste IMO.

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

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