johnegg Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 the idler to the left of the crank in this pic, ''A'' in pic below, was originally designed with double bearings inside. but i have never seen a new one like that. i don't think even the ''subaru'' idlers come with double bearings any more. i don't know why. the first time a took one of these apart i thioght all the idlers were good since they all spun freely. but new idlers are tight, not loose. they turn but they do not spin on and on. they are tight. no grease in the bearing will let it spin freely. not what you want. but i would trust the kit from rockauto, with one exception. i would call and ask about the missing idler. it may have been left out. do you have a packing list?? http://subarupartsforyou.com/images/products/TBK9902FOR.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes, the missing idler was not included in the kit for sure. I am assuming that this double bearing idler doesn't wear out as fast as the other ones and therefor they don't see the need to replace it? It seems to roll ok and it doesn't have rough bearing noise, but def sure it doesn't "stop" like its full of grease like the new ones. I know its "safe" to say replace it, but there is a snowstorm right now, and I was using today to get the Subie back on the road... i am really tempted to leave it. My jeep is having problems and isn't safe to drive in snow due to the unevenly worn brakes and something goofy with the track bars that makes it want to spin. So far, it looks like the tensioner bracket I got will work. Tearing apart the oil pump now, cleaning, resealing with a new shaft seal and then on to the waterpump... Drivers side cam snapped over past the valvesprings which really sucks, it won't stay in time now, no matter what I do. If I didn't bend the valves somewhere during this circus, I'll be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 As long as your motor is at the timing mark on the crank sprocket you will be fine. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ok, I give up. The belt is too short by ALOT. I would have to skip an idler pulley or something of that nature to make it work. I cant even BEGIN to get the belt on, much less include the tensioner pulley Routing is correct... Tensioner, everything is bolted up ready for the belt, and apparently I have the wrong belt... Timing marks on cam pulleys is also not straight up and down like it should be in the pictures... I am 1:30 instead of 12:00ish on both pulleys if I try to use the timing marks on the new belt!!! I am afraid this routine maintenance is going to become a full scale part out... This shit shouldn't be this hard. Buy the kit follow the book put it in. Someone please tell me what I am doing wrong or is it this hard for everyone? Am I in the wrong section altogether because I have a 1999??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I know how you feel. First time I did a timing belt it sucked. It was really hard to get the belt back on. The second time I followed the FSM order and it was was a lot easier. Follow the FSM procedure in getting the belt back on. The trick is to install the belt idler 3 last. Be very careful to not cross thread the bolts like I did (I had to drill and install new threads). I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 first compare the new belt to the old belt. do not fold the belt or bend it too tight. you can damage it. but using the old idlers you should be able to compare their lengths. is it still in one piece? worst case, count the teeth on each belt. if it is the wrong length, call rockauto and complain. they are a good outfit and should take care of it. anyone can make a mistake, it is how you respond after the mistake that sets you apart from the rest. and don't forget to ask them why your kit is missing an idler. next, count the teeth between the marks? i don't know what the count should be off hand, but if you are using the marks on the belt, make sure the marks are correct. finally, it is not unusual for the belts to seem so tight what they will not fit. but if you remove the lower left idler, nearest the oil filter you should be able to get the belt on. then you just have to get the idler back on. flexing the belt up to allow you to start the idler bolt isn't all that hard. finally, do not pull the pin on the tensioner until you are satisfied that EVERYTHING else is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Fujibond is great. Hondabond is just and good as cheaper from what I have read. I used gray permatex. the wholesale parts guy at subaru superstore here in south chandler told me the same thing. he said save the cash, use the grey permatex. i already use that for pretty much everything else on my dodge and hondas, so i was cool with that. as for timing kits, i got mine from here http://stores.ebay.com//Mizumo-Auto-Parts/_i.html?_nkw=1995+SUBARU+LEGACY&submit=Search&LH_TitleDesc=1&_sid=386483855 i cant remember which one i got, but it had all the pulleys and the GMB water pump. the pump in my car was pretty much brand new so i still have the GMB that came with the kit. the timing belt i had in my car was a gates and brand new as well, but it was soaked with oil since the doofus that changed it didnt do the crank, cam and oil pump seals at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 OK I will give it another shot... Vids/pics if it is messed up. The NEW Mitsuboshi belt I have has the correct timing mark spacing passenger 44-driver side 40.5. The old belt says Made in USA, possibly DAYCO, has 48-45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 i have that same belt, went on easy-peasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Got my counting stick out... Mitsuboshi belt has 211 teeth. Old belt has 223. Rock auto confirms... 1999 cars have 223 teeth, 1997 and below have 211. Let the record reflect. I can't go after them on it... I already opened up all the packages and installed the idlers and the water pu.p AND i authorized the return for the tensioner issue (but was just going to let the return expire because I was going to use the parts). They specify pretty clearly on the "timing belt" section of the website that there is still a difference. Just have to take it in the pants... They said they'd take it back unopened, now the shits installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Well, car runs. Slightly better than before. Got a crappy Dayco belt for $50 at Advance Auto Parts. The dealership wouldn't even sell me a belt without a VIN. Still piston slaps like Michael Jackson and a 4th grader. CEL came up right away will check it in the morning... Lets assume its the same misfire code due to piston slap setting the knock sensor off... All in all? I am extremely disappointed and wish I had traded the car off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 That sucks. Sorry to hear that. I lol'd at the Michael Jackson joke though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Haha, I'm glad. Anyone... Is this just really bad piston slap or is this rod knock? I drove it 20 miles and the noise got MUCH worse. I popped the hood to check for leaks and wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr00b Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 Well, I don't know if anyone gives two poops, but the loud knocking I was experiencing like in the video has gone away by some crazy coincidence, it did it for about 50 or so miles even at operating temp. I'm experiencing just a short bout of piston slap on start up and it runs normally even great and when its hot its totally quiet. There is a crazy chance in hell I might not have torqued a spark plug checking that in a bit.. But the knock sounded just like a vid on youtube where the guy replaced the engine, so I was pretty disappointed. The car is really proving itself on the slushy/icy roads and my marginally plowed driveway. I was passing Jeep Cherokees and other 4x4s in the ditch and I was having no problems with traction with crappy tires. REALLY made the work pay off just in one night. Best AWD ever. I am chasing a coolant leak around the waterpump/tstat housing once thats all licked, I'm a happy camper and mission success. Thank you everyone for your support and your tolerance for my paranoia and whining. And Merry Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Glad to hear everything is going well and you like it. Glad I could help you! -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyMcRae Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 http://www.customcarscentral.com/gattckwp307-subaru-legacy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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