Erickson00 Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I just got my system installed- it LOOKS great, but I can't say I am too pleased with the sound. I have Polk components in front, and they sound decent. The tweeters are a little harsh, but that's probably just because I am not used to them. They are powered by an Infinity Reference amp, with 97 watts to each. What doesn't sound good is the subwoofer. I have a single 12'' Kicker Solo-baric in a sealed enclosure, powered by an Infinity amp rated at 657 watts RMS at 2 ohms. The sub handles 600 watts RMS. I have adjusted the amp's gain, bass boost, and crossover, and have made the signal as flat as possible by reducing the bass on the head unit and compensating with gain, but the bass sounds muddy on everything but bass CD's - the kind that have nothing but really heavy, deep bass. Everything else I put in, even bass-rich rap, sounds muddy, unclear, far from precise, and just bad. I used to have a Kenwood subwoofer getting 200 watts, and it sounded just as loud, ad cleaner, than this Solo-baric getting 657 watts. The box is the right size, and the amp is powering it as advertised. I am getting good, clean voltage from my capacitor, and my trunk is lined with dynamat, so there is no rattle. I am using a nice Navone LOC, nice Stinger wiring, and nice terminals. But it just doesn't sound good. It seems to be reaching maximum excursion, but it definitely does not sound like 600 watts. The 200 watts I had in my Honda sounded as loud as this. Any advice? I am thinking about ditching the Kicker sub and getting an Alpine SWR 1242D instead. Would the sound quality improve? What subs sound great with 300 watts RMS in 4 ohms, or up to 600 watts in 2 ohms? Do you lose sound quality and accuracy at 2 ohms? Should I get a sub rated at 4 ohms and forget about one that can be wired down to 2 ohms? Please help - my sound system sounds like crap right now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 It's not your sub's or amp's fault. Search for the "Cleansweep" thread and you'll see why it sounds like that. And, all other things being equal, 600 watts is only a few dB louder than 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Set the HU's bass control from -3 to -6 and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatChips107 Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 yeah if ur running throught the stock HU... then u gotta keep the bass control on -5 or -6 otherwise the interiors will recieve bass and that sounds like dirt.. that way u can turn the volume up more and ur bass will kick without affecting the rest of the speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 My experience is that the trunk is WELL insulated (sound wise) from the cabin, as well. I pulled the factory sub cover off the rear deck to get some extra sound out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erickson00 Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 All good points. I will try to reset the gain with a -6 on the stereo. The only problem with that is that I really want some bass coming from the woofers in my doors. Would Cleansweep allow for frequencies between 60 and 80 Hz through to the mids? I seem to be experiencing a few problems rolled into one. The sub is not nearly as loud as I expected it to be. While I guess the Cleansweep could help with the sound, it won't have an impact on the sheer loudness, right? I can't figure out why the sub is not pounding. It doesn't hit low, which I guess must be due to rolloff from the head unit. Maybe setting it to -6 will help with that. I'll check it out...and I definitely want Cleansweep...I just don't want to pay $400 for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erickson00 Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 It's not your sub's or amp's fault. Search for the "Cleansweep" thread and you'll see why it sounds like that. And, all other things being equal, 600 watts is only a few dB louder than 200. In which case, I should install a sub that is known for sound quality, instead of one that is known for it's power. What do you recommend? Would an Alpine Type R sound good? It's RMS capabilities are in line with what my amp puts out in either 4 or 2 ohm loads... I can't spend a ton on the sub, so nothing over $300 is going to be in the cards for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 If there is a phase switch on the sub's amp, switch it and see if that improves things. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Your sound quality is bad because the signal coming from the HU is poor & dramatically altered (see the cleansweep link above). Even with the CS, your SQ ain't gonna be great. Here's an experiment - hook up another signal source to your amps, a cd player, Ipod, whatever. Run it dierectly to the amps, split it if you have to. Give it a listen and ten bucks says you'll be much happier with the SQ. I had the same problem with a Jeep system using the stock CD player & everything else top quality. I kept having to play with the EQ to try to make it right, but it was never quite there. Then I plugged in an Ipod directly to the EQ and it was a "holy crap" eye-opener. Consequently, I'm going with an audiocontrol processor inline between the Subaru cd player and the rest of the system. It has a seperate volume & aux input. solves the problem I know I'll have with that stock player, plus I basically have the whole music collection on the Ipod anyhow. Anyway, try the test, see what you think. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklyngenius Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 check my thread and see and audio system that sounds out of this world!! I have been searchin for sound quality like this for a long time!! useless signature line where i cant mention my sponsors "First Bagged BL5!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLU24 Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 im with everyone elses idea about the stock signal being crappy- also i preffer bandpass or ported boxes for spl- sealed boxes need huge amounts of power to get loud- also i dont think u mentioned what your cutoff freq is for the sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 About your sub - there's nothing wrong with the sub you have, it's not bad quality. I'd play with the source signal before changing out components, put out one fire at a time. What's your objective here - Flash, SPL or SQ? And 600 watts in a sealed enclosure should be producing a powerful bass punch - sealed enclosures dont' require a lot of juice to be efficient & effective - they're just not as loud & boomy as ported/bandpass. My guess is that the source is rolling off your bass signal around 40hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_low78 Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 This is why I used the Avo dash kit and went with an aftermarket HU. I tried to live with the factory HU and 2 Loc's but that didn't cut it. Clean Sweep wouldnt either because I'm use to high end Alpine's with 3 RCA outs at 4 volts. So you get the Front channel, the Rear channel and the non fading Subwoofer channel (CS only has front and rear, therefor when you adjust your bass lvl's your sub is affected as well). You go that route and you can't lose. That setup works wonders when you want to lower the bass on your door speakers and crank the sub for killer volume with less chance of distortion, or the awful door rattle. But as mentioned before, it could also be your sub out of phase or if you have a new box for your sub, that could be it as well. I went through 3 sealed boxes before I found one that was acceptable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 If there is a phase switch on the sub's amp, switch it and see if that improves things. +1 I had this problem at one point on an old sub install. Sounds like it might be on the "reverse" setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamboon Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I have JL's clean sweep, JL 5 channel amp powering stock speakers and JL 12" sub and my car slams. My last car had highend panasonic head unit with two seperate PPI amps, running mquartz and two W6 JL subs and I would have to say that my new set up sounds as good and hits just as hard. Also with the clean sweep i have full control of the sub volume and use factory treble, mids, bass, fade and balance adjustments. I also installed a sirius in the cubby hole and using clean sweep with a push of a butten I switch from factory head unit to sat. I also installed a 10.2" flip down dvd player in place of the dome light (for the kids) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erickson00 Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 +1 I had this problem at one point on an old sub install. Sounds like it might be on the "reverse" setting. I don't have this switch on my amp... I set the bass to -6, the mid to 0 and the treble to +2. My sub is still not hitting low and deep, and it sounds like a lot of high frequencies are in the sub, even when I turn the crossover all the way down to 32 Hz, at which point the output from the sub is very weak. I read posts in this forum for weeks, and everyone who installed amps using LOC's said they're system sounded great. My sub can handle down to 20 Hz, but I am not hearing those frequencies coming from it. I am pretty upset that it sounds bad...it sounds ok on bass CDs, but I listen to a wide variety of music, and want low frequency reproduction on everything I listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erickson00 Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 About your sub - there's nothing wrong with the sub you have, it's not bad quality. I'd play with the source signal before changing out components, put out one fire at a time. What's your objective here - Flash, SPL or SQ? And 600 watts in a sealed enclosure should be producing a powerful bass punch - sealed enclosures dont' require a lot of juice to be efficient & effective - they're just not as loud & boomy as ported/bandpass. My guess is that the source is rolling off your bass signal around 40hz. That seems to the problem...I thought it would be corrected by setting the bass control at -6. It didn't help, even though I set the gain on the amp higher to compensate for the flat signal. I am still not getting low, deep bass. I expect to not get as deep with a sealed enclosure as I would with a ported box, but I had a sealed enclosure with a single Kenwood 12 in my Honda, and it hit deeper than this Solo-baric. I did have an aftermarket HU in my Honda. So how do I get around this frequency cutoff, and why have a lot of people who have posted in here about how great their system sounds with LOC's not mentioned this frequency rolloff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erickson00 Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 Your sound quality is bad because the signal coming from the HU is poor & dramatically altered (see the cleansweep link above). Even with the CS, your SQ ain't gonna be great. Here's an experiment - hook up another signal source to your amps, a cd player, Ipod, whatever. Run it dierectly to the amps, split it if you have to. Give it a listen and ten bucks says you'll be much happier with the SQ. I had the same problem with a Jeep system using the stock CD player & everything else top quality. I kept having to play with the EQ to try to make it right, but it was never quite there. Then I plugged in an Ipod directly to the EQ and it was a "holy crap" eye-opener. Consequently, I'm going with an audiocontrol processor inline between the Subaru cd player and the rest of the system. It has a seperate volume & aux input. solves the problem I know I'll have with that stock player, plus I basically have the whole music collection on the Ipod anyhow. Anyway, try the test, see what you think. Good luck. So you still have the stock HU and Audiocontrol and it sounds great? Or do you have an after market unit AND Audiocontrol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I had to use a 30 band EQ to clean up the low end.. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 My system isn't finished yet, but it's the same gear I used in the last car so I know how it sounds. Here's a link to the ongoing install - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237801#post237801. I hope to finish up next weekend, it's really about when I have the time to do it. I'm using the stock HU as one source, feeding into the Audiocontrol's LOC. The Audiocontrol also has an aux input on the rear where I'll wire the Ipod which is what I expect to use 99% of the time. So really the audiocontrol piece is just a small indash pre-amp for the Ipod. Here's the frequency response of the stock HU at different volumes (from http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11597) - (click pic twice to enlarge?) http://img250.echo.cx/my.php?image=volcomparedefeated8et.gif You can see at volume 25 & under the stock deck rolls off the bass sharply at about 60hz, so don't expect to hear much below that using the stock deck. You can use a CS or an aftermarket EQ to try & flatten it back out, but remember you're trying to recreate sound where it's been taken away, which is never going to sound as good as just using a decent signal in the first place. Think of it like trying to creat a hi-res photo on a computer from a lo-res original. Even the best equipment can only do so much. Once your volume gets above 25 (the green line in picture) the stock deck really starts to pervert the signal to almost no bass. You NEED to plug in a different source to your amps & hear the difference. Use an Ipod or a home cd player on an extension cord in the driveway. Or go back to your shop & have them set up a test. You won't believe your ears. Be sure to listen to the same track thru the stock deck, then the test source. You'll probably find your highs sound a lot better too. For me, the music sounds like music again, a coherent whole, and I want to keep listening...Is that what you're looking for? About these people who say they have a great system working off the stock deck - not to take anything away from them, but they probably think they do. I doubt you'd agree if you heard their setup yourself. Since you've had a better system in the past, you know the difference. Go do a test with a different source. do it now. Tell us what you find. Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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