MtnSub Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Ed328Ci, enjoyed your review of Leg GT compared to Audi/BMW3. Like you, I have owned Audi and BMW with sport pack. I am hoping and another poster suggested that putting a set of better and wider 17/225/45 tires on the Leg GT will likely improve steering feel and reduce the overboost feel with stock tires. Even with BMW, I ordered the sport pack on both the cars I bought. Like you said, even with stock tires, the std Leg GT comes close to BMW w/sport suspension and upgraded tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSPDiver Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Scubie02, Great post over on G35driver. I think it will fall on deaf ears, but your points are valid. That particular party does conceed that the LGT may/will be a formidable presence on the street, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 I saw the G35, if I were offered the same price for it and the GT, I'd take the GT. IMHO the GT beats the B6 A4 as well, having driven them back to back. As far as refinement, it also beat the late model mercedes kompressor I was recently in - it only had better power seats. This is not a one sided opinion i.e. "It has more power therefor it is better" I'm considering all things like feel of the materials to elegance of the design, quietness and smoothness, etc. And for anything else german, it's a financial blackhole if you plan on keeping a car past warranty. The majority of people just want to buy image, not car. It's like 12 year old girls and britney spears. Has anyone driven a maxima and the lowest model infiniti back to back? Same car with a analog clock on the dash. Don't be upset, just enjoy your car - because if it ever does become an image car, you'll be paying a lot more for it. Let SOA do the marketing. We should just leave the g35driver people to wallow in their own ignorance. Personally, I don't know what to do with myself while waiting for my GT on order... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady_bunch Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 My $0.02: [url]http://g35driver.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=1&Number=283724&page=0&view=&sb=&part=6&vc=1[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crapy Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 but the options available on the G35s are much better than B4 :D [url]http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67790634&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1&PHPSESSID=[/url] and they will have intelligent key as an option for the 05 models too!!! :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady_bunch Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Agreed... the G35 has many more options (HID, navi, reclining rear seats, etc) than the Legacy... for this year. :) If you are into that kind of stuff, G35 is the winner for sure. When I took a serious look at what I wanted, the Legacy won ... and at a discount of about $8000 over the G35. Brand image means very little to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed328Ci Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 [quote name='MtnSub']...Like you said, even with stock tires, the std Leg GT comes close to BMW w/sport suspension and upgraded tires.[/quote] Yeah, it's not that far away. However the steering feel is still too numb, and too light. Of course, there are lots of die hard Bimmer drivers that complain about that regarding the post-2000 model BMWs. :) Anyways, I like the Legacy GT. Prior to the introduction of that car, I would have stated that the G35 provided the best bang for the buck. The Legacy GT holds that title now. Of course, is $$$ isn't a factor, I would still pick a 330i ZHP or an E90. Unfortunately, we all live in the Real World. :( My opinion regarding marque; for sedans, the top class is held by MB S class, Rolls Royce, followed by MB / BMW / Lexus, followed by Audi, followed by Acura, Infiniti and Caddy, then by Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, and Subaru, then by everyone else. Due to a lacking marketing compaign, I don't think most of the general public would place Infiniti in the same bracket as Lexus / BMW/ MB. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 [quote name='Ed328Ci'] My opinion regarding marque; for sedans, the top class is held by MB S class, Rolls Royce, followed by MB / BMW / Lexus, followed by Audi, followed by Acura, Infiniti and Caddy, then by Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, and Subaru, then by everyone else. Due to a lacking marketing compaign, I don't think most of the general public would place Infiniti in the same bracket as Lexus / BMW/ MB. Ed[/quote] You forgot a few. Sedan breakdown: -Uber-class: New and old Rolls, Old Bentley (maybe new when a new saloon comes out, New Conti is a coupe only so far) and perhaps the best being Maybach. -Upper Mainstream: Mercedes S-class (falling behind) Maserati Quattroporte, 7-series BMW, New Jag XJ, Audi A8. VW Phaeton wants to play here, too. -Executive class: Caddy Deville, BMW 5, MB E-class, S-Type(&R), Lexus LS, New Caddy STS. Audi 6, Acura TL wants to play in this class, too. Infinity M45 and Q45 (illusions of grandeur towards upper mainstream), Volvo S80-60 (whichever is their flagship now) Upper Buick models, if sport not considered. Lincoln Town Car. Near Lux, Entry Lux: Caddy CTS, BMW 3, Acura TL belongs here, Lexus IS and ES models, Infinity G35, Lower Audi A6, A4. Jaguar X-type, Saab 9^5 (whichever is their upper model sedan.) Pontiac Bonnevillle, Lower buick, upper oldsmobile models. Acura TSX. Volvo S40 Lincoln LS bridges gap upward to executive class. Chrysler 300C, Linc Continental, and it's mazda 6-based replacement. Perhaps Mercury Marquis and VW Passat on the low end, toward everybody cars. Premium sedan: Small class of special mention cars in-between near lux, and the everymans cars: SUBARU LEGACY, Ford Five-hundred (which will have AWD option), Supercharged Buick Regal. old Mazda Millenia might fit better here, Premium versions of Mazda 6. Nissan Maxima. Maybe Pontiac GXP, G6 or whatever they are calling it, if it turns out as extra special as they promise. Dodge Magnum and Chrysler 300 might fight here, as well. Everybody cars: Full, midsize, or compact. Accord, Camry, Ford Taurus, Focus, Sable, Crown Vic, Chevy Malibu, Impala, Cobalt 4-door. Pontiac Grand prix, Olds Alero, Saturns (all), Dodge stratus, Chrysler Sebring, Nissan Altima, Sentra, Mazda 3, VW Jetta, Golf 5-door, Hyundai XG350, Kia Amanti, Impreza & WRX, Mitsu Galant, Lancer & Evo. (WRX and EVO might be special cases here, but are still to small physically for premium sedan class.) and extending downward into econo-box territory. I probably forgot one or two, myself. It is easier to discriminate models, rather than entire brands, because the brands overlap in different ways, and it is only getting more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed328Ci Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Good post! I was too lazy to break it done to that level of detail. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 The market break down gets very simple when you talk about wagons. Subaru has always enjoyed success in the wagon segment and with the GT intro, IMO, is now in position to dominate this market segment. Many Subaru buyers are interested in outdoor sports and want a wagon, but do not want a SUV. Now, people that like sport driving can get to their outdoor sports in a real sport machine. If we are talking sedans, I agree that the 330ix with the HP pack, (not the std sport pack) is ultimate, even better in some ways than M3, but you cannot get 330ix anything in a wagon. Game Suby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 You have to establish your priorities. Performance, value, and simplicity or luxury, bling factor, gizmos -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 The other thing worth noting, which nobody has yet, is that putting nice tires on the Legacy GT changes the steering feel for the better. Some of that lightness, is in fact sqirminess. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crapy Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Pic of the 05 G3 Sedan: http://img53.photobucket.com/albums/v163/Sukairain/IMG_0028.jpg 19's as standard? and even gthe G35 sedan will be having the G35C's backlight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Kevin, that's why I'm taking delivery with Toyo Proxes 4's, not the RE92's. I will have a much better feel off the start. It won't be 050 compliant, but much closer to that end than 92's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']The other thing worth noting, which nobody has yet, is that putting nice tires on the Legacy GT changes the steering feel for the better. Some of that lightness, is in fact sqirminess. Kevin[/quote] I was hoping that would be the case. Every pic I see of the legacy, it looks like it is begging for 18x7.5 wheels, and 225/40-zr18 tires. some company, I forget which, makes a yellow box that can manipulate the hall-effect signal of the ground speed sensor. wired between the sensor and the computer, should fine tune the speedo calibration to be spot on. Heck, most cars aren't spot on accurate with stock tires and wheels anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Nice pics of G35/45s in jail. Regarding steering feel and better paws, I like the idea of 225/45/17s, but there are limited 17x7.5 wheel choices. The more I see the stock wheels, the more I like them, but not comfortable with 225 on 7" wheel. I do not want to push the limits in wheel with well with 18s or drop to a 40 sidewall, so would 17x8 wheels work well with 225 and wheel well? This would increase wheel selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Since an inch = 25.4mm, we can calculate the following: Wheel widths: 7"- ~171mm - stock 7.5"- ~190mm 8" - 203mm Tire sidewalls: 215/45-zr17 sidewall height is 96.75mm or 3.80" - stock 225/45-zr17 sidewall height is 101mm or 3.98" 225/40-zr18 sidewall height is 90mm or 3.54", plus the 1" of wheel diameter. 225/45-zr18 sidewall height is also 101mm, or 3.98, plus the additional inch of wheel diameter. A 225/45/17 tire would have the most sidewall height to flex for a narrower rim. 35mms difference between the 225mm tire tread, and the 190mm wheel width, would mean a 17.5mm inward flex to the front and the back bead. barely over half an inch. An 8" rim, if it would fit, would only have a difference of 22mm, 11mm per side, or around 3/8ths of an inch. However, an 8 inch wide rim might be better for an 18" rim and tire, with a 40 series sidewall, since working with less sidewall height for inward flex. A 45 series 18" tire would add significant rolling diameter to the car, ~1.2", which will affect gearing and speed calibrations noticeably. Taller final drive gearing would mean higher road speed for given engine revs in a given gear; or lower revs for given speed and gear. this tends to dampen accelleration, but at this level neither effective change would be huge, but merely noticeable. It would, however, give the largest of the selected contact patches, and thus traction for a given tire. As mentioned before, inward flex of the sidewall from the tread to the rim produces slightly softer reflexes, and more squared sidewalls (less difference between rim and tread widths) produces more performance, with harsher responses. a 17x8 wheel, with 225/45-17 tire would provide the most squared sidewall tires, for the most direct response, with the minimum rolling diameter increase. The added contact patch width would likely add resistance to the steering, which some say is too assisted anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady_bunch Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Holy mathmatical calculations, Batman! Great post... lots of info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Holly cow Robin, did you see what IwanaSportSedan wrote. Joking aside, that was a very informative post. Not only did you answer my question, but took the time increase my general understanding. The people on this site are amazing. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Sorry about the double post, but upon second read of IwanaSportSedan's tire/wheel tutorial, the answer to part of my question was not clear. Anyone think that the 8 inch wheel is a fit/rub problem on the Leg GT with the 225/45/17 tires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Options on other vehicles are always going to be offered over and above what Subaru can and will offer. Granted Subaru is good at doing somethings and not at others, i think that is a given. At the end of the day its how the car drives for me and how it goes. You can always load it up with other parts that the other manufacutres have at a later date. BUT, Subaru for me is a fantastic car. You dont see Nissan or any other car maker with WRC trophies on the mantle like we do becuase they do or dont have a GPS and Xenon System Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub-attraction Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Local dealer just got in their first GT sedan (non-limited, auto, AB)and I took it for a spin. All I can say is "Damn that was fun, can we do it again"...and we did...my dealer rep is way cool. I drove an OBXT several weeks ago and didn't care for it much and was beginning to wonder if I'd even like the GT. Now that I've experienced it firsthand, my faith has been reaffirmed in a big way. Like everyone else reports it is difficult to keep it below 4k. I forgot I had it in manual mode once at a stop sign and ran it up to 6k in first gear ...oops my bad. :oops: Someone mentioned that a gradual steady increase in the gas pedal would produce better results than quick jabs and I would definitely have to agree. The rep kept suggesting that I "experience the turbo" meaning step on it quick but I found it more responsive to a steady foot. I was impressed with the AT this time, unlike my prior test drive. Makes the decision between MT and AT more difficult, especially since my dealer says they will not order a MT for stock. I'll have to go to Indy for a test drive I guess. The steering is a bit lighter than that in my TL by I felt it was spot on and no torque steer as witnessed from the 6k run..I still feel bad about that. The engine sings real pretty though. The driving experience is what it's all about for this car and it does it well. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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