UMD_03LGT Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 @copboy311 any updates after having the mount replaced? I'm pretty excited to hear about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copyboy311 Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Good news and bad news, with pictures to help explain. I had the trans. mount replaced and it improved the jerking in gear, but it did not eliminate it. I also changed the front differential gear oil while it was on the lift too. Shifting is smoother and more precise now, and takeoffs in first gear are smoother. There is still jerking when throttling on and off in gear, but not as much as there was. As you can see in the photos, the old mount was pretty worn. The rubber had become soft and pliable, and the top rubber separated from the frame of the mount. This most certainly contributed to some of the problem. The new mount was very stiff. I do think that the rear differential mount bushings, however, are the rest of the problem. The dealer that did my work said that nothing looked "abnormal" for the age of my car, but I don't really trust their opinion, because how could they believe that that beat-up, worn-out trans. mount was not in need of replacement? I'm trying to find another shop to possibly do the bushings if it's not too big a job. From reading about them, though, it looks like a cheap part with a lot of labor. If it's too pricey, I'll live with the improvement I just achieved and let the rest go. Read more about those rear bushings and how they affect drivability here: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/24265-rear-differential-mounts-condition-replacement.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMD_03LGT Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Good to know. I also purchased a group N tranny mount yesterday along with the combo set of Kartboy shifter bushings and plan on installing them this weekend...fingers crossed here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyNuttz Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Just saying "Me too" to this thread. I have an 03 GT sedan, and this has been an issue with the car since I drove it off the lot 4.5 years ago. The simplest way I can reproduce the issue is to creep at a very slow speed in first gear on a level road. I let the clutch all the way out with little to no gas, and the whole car will bounce as it rolls along in gear. It was my first standard, so I didn't know any better for a long time, and my wife complained about my driving forever until she spent a few days driving my car. She had a '99 Impreza, and it was night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copyboy311 Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Well, if one of you two wants to replace your rear differential-mount bushings and tell me if that fixes the problem, I'm all ears. I'd love to have that annoying jerking disappear completely. ScottyNuttz, the way you described it is perfect. Exactly the problem I'm trying to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMD_03LGT Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Agreed. Should be installing stuff this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMD_03LGT Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 So my bushings haven't arrived yet, but I went ahead and installed the transmission mount yesterday. My stock mount looked identical to copboy's. The rubber was super pliable and I could very easily bend the mount myself, although I do believe it wouldn't have been hurting anything if I just left it in there. There's definitely an increase in noise with the new mount, but I hear a lot of mine because I'm running a stock exhaust. In my opinion, the noise wouldn't be noticeable on a car that has the typical UEL header exhaust setup third gen's receive. The noise doesn't really bother me, but may not be for everyone. All in all, I would say it's worthwhile for the low cost and easy of installation. The stick is extremely firm now and hardly vibrates at all no matter what type of driving I'm doing. The jerking we're all trying to fix is still present but has certainly been lessened, and will likely be reduced even more so once I install the bushings. During installation I ran into a bit of a hiccup when trying to remove the crossmember. Turns out the crossmember is actually bolted to the heat shield right near one of the cats. Two bolts need to be removed, and one was going to be real tough to get to without dropping that cat. Luckily, I discovered that the crossmember doesn't even have to be removed to get the mount out. Once you loosen and remove the nuts holding the mount to the crossmember, the crossmember will drop enough to allow the mount to be removed. Final note: come armed with lots of PB blaster if you plan on doing this. I blasted the crap out of the nuts holding the crossmember to the mount and still ended up shearing them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobpockros Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Final note: come armed with lots of PB blaster if you plan on doing this. I blasted the crap out of the nuts holding the crossmember to the mount and still ended up shearing them off. Bare with me if this sounds like a dumb question but you used a breaker bar right? 6-point sockets or 12-point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMD_03LGT Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Yessir, breaker bar with a 6-point 14mm deep socket. I unfortunately couldn't use an actual breaker bit because it wouldn't fit through the surrounding holes in the cross member, but the deep socket did the job. These were by far the most rusted up bolts of all the ones you deal with in doing this install...all of the others came loose real easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobpockros Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Yessir, breaker bar with a 6-point 14mm deep socket. I unfortunately couldn't use an actual breaker bit because it wouldn't fit through the surrounding holes in the cross member, but the deep socket did the job. These were by far the most rusted up bolts of all the ones you deal with in doing this install...all of the others came loose real easily. Part of the issue could of been that you weren't using 12-point sockets. From my experience 6-point sockets can round off bolts pretty easily. 12-points have a far better grip for that situation and are FAR less likely to damage them. They are the best to use for that situation (I would say). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMD_03LGT Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Interesting...that thought actually never crossed my mind. Gonna have to look into picking up a set of those... Although thinking about it now, my bolts never actually rounded off, more or less just sheared and broke away (the nut was rusted to the bolt altogether). Still looking into those 12-points though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmart Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Has anyone been able to fix this jerkiness issue? I picked up a 77,650 mile '04 GT last January and have been chasing a fix ever since. It feels terrible to drive in comparison to my '00 GT with 178k miles. So far I have: 78k 16 oz Seafoam in tank. 78.5k New NGK (2382) BKR5ES-11 spark plugs. Coils and wires all test good. Tried new air filter from '00 GT. 78.6k replaced worn front transmission mount 80.3k replaced rear diff cush mounts. Swapped and adjusted TPS. No change. 80.8k Seafoam again 81k Cleaned IACV- Idle Air Control Valve. Throttle body cleaned with spray and rag. 82k Check engine light. PO519. Installed new neutral switch. 32008AA074. Old one wasn't working. 83.5k Today it is getting new gear oil. I'm starting to look at seemingly unrelated things, like suspension (struts and bearings), as it does seem much stiffer (in a bad way) than my '00 GT. When driven agressively, everything feels normal, but at lower RPM, on off throttle is incredibly jerky and there is a definite stumble. I'm open to any good diagnostic ideas. Later the same day... The "gear oil" that came out was very light and very thin. It smelled a little of gear oil, but seemed like something else. It was replaced with a quality oil, but the jerkiness continues. The only suggestion left is to try to flash the fuel/air/shifting strategy from my '00 to the '04. Can this be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Most of the jerking will be because of those rear diff mount bushings, I just replaced mine about three weeks ago with the whitelines bushings for an o5 lgt. That's where the jumpy on/off the gas pedal action was for me. I fixed it for a while with the whiteline stiffening inserts but the bushings were so bad they damaged the inserts so I ponied the cash up and did the repair properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmart Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Sadly, no. This definitely seems like a fuel/air/computer problem and not a mechanical one. It has nothing to do with clutch engagement, but only to do with on/off throttle, particularly at low RPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minemine04 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I've been working on reducing the drivetrain slop since I bought my car. So far the best thing I have done to it was installing group-N engine and transmission mounts along with TiC bushings on the transmission cross-members. This caused a slight increase in cabin noise, but a much better drive overall (plus I kinda like the increased engine noise). I agree that the rear diff inserts are next on the list, but as mentioned above they are cheap parts with a lot of labor involved. I encourage anyone with this issue to get the transmission and engine mounts done. I have a local tuner shop do mine for under $500 (parts and labor). Best thing I've done to the car yet. You can see just how much the rear diff moves around (links posted earlier in this thread too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrJdUSjOaxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIh3PcjCYcg and the transmission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f604lsN_Mvw I have not had a chance to update those since getting the engine / transmission mounts installed, but I will share when I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsGMS Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 So I just picked up my legacy a few weeks ago and was having a few issues similar to the ones posted in here. About a week ago, my clutch pedal started sticking, and then it just suddenly dropped to the floor and stayed there. Turns out that the clutch slave cylinder was going, and was the reason I had been getting judders and shaking. I ended up with a bit of clutch chatter because I had to ride the clutch a bit more because it wasn't properly [dis]engaging. Has anyone taken the steps to try replacing their slave cylinder as well? I know my mounts are slowly starting to go and I'll be getting them done with my head rebuild come the spring, but the slave cylinder replacement has my new-to-me legacy feeling actually new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just picked up a 2003 Legacy LSE with 5mt with 150k miles a few weeks ago and it does the same thing. Letting off the gas in 2nd yeilds a fairly harsh jolt from driveline lash. I have driven the car several times now and getting familiar with the clutch, but although it can be smoothed out a tiny bit now that I am familiar with the feel of the throttle, it still happens. I will be doing engine and tranny mounts soon and checking the driveshaft condition. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notaduc Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Im having the same issue with a recently purchased 03 5mt obw. Ive replaced the trans/pitch/motor mounts, the jerking isnt quite as sloppy feeling now, but its , im sure this isnt gearlash in the trans/diff or a clutch problem, the symptoms arent right. At least in my case. Now tthat all my mounts are new, I agree with what seems the consensus here. Its ecu/peripheral related. I adjusted my tps from .44 to .516, left the idle high/loping, and didnt improve the jerking. Im going to check my grounds today, dont expect a change, but I did some weird moves on the test meter yesterday. I will be following this thread, and will post up any progress/solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmart Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm not sure this clutch engagement issue is related to my on/off throttle issue. How many miles on yours? My 00 got a slave at 135k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsGMS Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Just got a slave cylinder, 255k kms, so about 160k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notaduc Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey, check out your front control arm bushings. This is what was causing my jerkyness. I think it was mainly the rear one, they are gel/liquid filled and were bouncing around under on/off throttle loads. This was driving me nuts! edit* so this helped, definitely. But what I think did the most was the ecu reset, once the CEL went on again, it was jerky again, not as bad, but snatchy on and off the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 ^How many miles on the car when they were done? GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMD_03LGT Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey, check out your front control arm bushings. This is what was causing my jerkyness. I think it was mainly the rear one, they are gel/liquid filled and were bouncing around under on/off throttle loads. This was driving me nuts! Did this solve the problem for you? I did my trans mount and bushings a few months ago but am still in the market for a solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmart Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 notaduc, what year and model is your car? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovr9000 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I've got a relatively new clutch, had the driveshaft out and inspected and replaced all the front control arm bushings with whiteline stuff (anti lift & bump steer kit, and the inner bushings) but still the jerk is there. The car does turn way better than before though, and I'd recommend the two kits to anyone who is lowered. The inner bushings though? Screw that. I spent more time trying to remove the old bushings from the control arms than I did on the rest of the install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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