details on Spec B suspension

[gtguy]

[quote name='B4_Maniac']I will keep my RE92's for the winter. Oh, and just a heads up, I got a email from my parts rep saying that his contact at corporate said the Bilstiens would not fit the USDM Legacy...I think thats realy fishy.. Thats why they are going with Eibach.. Why in hell would they not fit??[/quote] That seems fishy to me. They are fundamentally the same car, and JDM parts have always fit the USDM cars. Did he say why they wouldn't fit? I can see Subaru going with Eibach because the USDM cars have different strut valving rates, and STi doesn't want to bother developing a spring that they won't well many of. But I don't understand why the Bilsteins from the Spec B wouldn't fit. Oh, the RE92s are abysmal in the snow. I wouldn't keep them for winter. I know that it SAYS "M+S," but they're kidding about that one. :lol: Kevin

[B4_Maniac]

[{Oh, the RE92s are abysmal in the snow. I wouldn't keep them for winter. I know that it SAYS "M+S," but they're kidding about that one. :lol: Kevin[/quote] Funny! :D ...so what am I supposed to do with these suckers? Anyway, no the rep didn't say. I think cuz he knows I would blab the first chance I get :oops: .. But, it makes no sence that the Bilstien package would not fit. Ecspecialy if they package in new struts. On that page they said they rebuilt the stock Bilstien strut and redisigned the springs. So why not just bring that over. It could be buecause they have a relationship with KYB and are paying Eibach some cash too..but I would make sence to me to just run with the Bilstein relationship and satisfy both markets.

[SUBE555]

I'm on the same page with you guys, so I'm going to have to call this on the parts guys: [img]http://homepage.mac.com/futureofx/.Pictures/HOST/FUNNY/bs.gif[/img] They are probably thinking same struts with their springs or something of that manner. The full body (spring and strut) shouldn't have any problems. Hopefully Paul can get in here and debunk this, but I seriously doubt there will be much of any fittment models. For tires, listen to Kevin and my previous statements. Aside from usage, it's just basic physics and common sense. :) I got credit for my RE92's before I take delivery so I don't have to worry about winter driving. :D I'll work on my summer tire selection next spring and see what's available. Still not sure if I'm going to go with Spec B, another set of Stock wheels or others (plenty of time to agonize and stress over that :lol: ), but we'll see what is available in spring and if Kevin@KoI has the availability of more JDM prts by then. :)

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='SUBE555']I'm on the same page with you guys, so I'm going to have to call this on the parts guys: [img]http://homepage.mac.com/futureofx/.Pictures/HOST/FUNNY/bs.gif[/img] They are probably thinking same struts with their springs or something of that manner. The full body (spring and strut) shouldn't have any problems. Hopefully Paul can get in here and debunk this, but I seriously doubt there will be much of any fittment models. For tires, listen to Kevin and my previous statements. Aside from usage, it's just basic physics and common sense. :) I got credit for my RE92's before I take delivery so I don't have to worry about winter driving. :D I'll work on my summer tire selection next spring and see what's available. Still not sure if I'm going to go with Spec B, another set of Stock wheels or others (plenty of time to agonize and stress over that :lol: ), but we'll see what is available in spring and if Kevin@KoI has the availability of more JDM prts by then. :)[/quote] Can somebody PM Paul at APEX? On his site he said the current Legacy is too powerfull for his Bilstiens. I wonder if he would sell them to me so I can put them on my car and find out the truth. I think there is some coprate handwashing going on with SOA to keep us from getting those Bilstiens. Sube..start emailing...lets get to the bottom of this! I must have Bilstiens for my Leggy!

[SUBE555]

He's finally on, he's been paged. :) Shortly.

[apexjapan]

Apologies, was off on vacation for the last week (finally!). First off - for a fully accurate answer, somebody in the US with a Legacy GT needs to jack up the rear of their car on one side, take off the rear wheel, and get shots of the suspension from the front, sides and other angles. While I'm fairly certain the suspension mount points are exactly the same, it's better safe than sorry. The spring perches on the USDM suspension may be different - it was different between the Bilstein and non-Bilstein models in Japan in past models. Lets also separate some things out here - there is the Bilstein dampers, and then there are the GT and Spec B springs. From what I've seen, the GT springs/GT Bilsteins are rather well matched to each other, ditto for the Spec B. Mixing and matching is not something I'd recommend. Now, I've done just that - I've got the GT Bilstein dampers on, and we've experimented with a spring set from Australia. Now, these springs are stiffer and more performance-oriented than the stock GT springs in Australia, but they are less performance-oriented than the stock GT springs in Japan. The rear springs on a GT have a rating of 5.4kg/cm (I think that's how they put it here) while the Australian springs are around 3.4kg/cm. They may have even been around 2.4kg/cm... Now, that's the thing - the JDM GT springs (not even the spec b...) have roughly the same rating as the aftermarket "windy road" springs of the past. That was considered a pretty harsh setup, but Subaru got around it here by balancing the spring/damper setup well. What I'm saying, though, is that the USDM is probably around the 2.4kg/cm rating in the rear, with softer dampers. I don't have the data for the fronts, but Subaru has been using a higher rating in the rear than the fronts for that neutral handling, while aftermarket is rather tradition bound and goes for higher ratings in the front than the rear, which tends to promote understeer, but people don't notice that because of the firmer ride. So if you plan to use the JDM setup, it would be good if people understand that it's nearly as harsh as a firm aftermarket setup, but without lowering the car at all. Also, what has probably happened with the parts supplier, it's rather expensive to buy new, which reduces the parts suppliers margin vs. aftermarket spring/damper sets. And he may simply know that the JDM setup *is* rather hard, and is likely too much for most people who won't expect that, since it's a "stock" setup. Cheers, Paul Hansen

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='SUBE555']He's finally on, he's been paged. :) Shortly.[/quote] Sweet..PM me when he posts...I am going to bed...have to go to work tommorow so I can afford new parts for my Leggy.. :?

[nicd]

Paul, is there anyway we could get the actual dampning numbers for the stock Bilstein setup that comes from the Legacy GT Spec B JDM? I took a quick look at the dampers that come on the USDM GT and they appear to be a large diameter piston unit very very similar to the Bilstein, but this was just a visual thing I will know more when I actually try and install them.

[apexjapan2]

They just changed the specs and we don't have them - yet :wink:

[nicd]

I did manage to find out the spring/coil rates on the stock spec B coils that are on the Wagon: Front coils 3.5 kgf/mm Rear coils 5.5 kgf/mm So the stock Spec B coils are actually pretty soft which would explain why so many people change them out . These are the STI spring rates: (FR) -15mm, 4.0kg/mm (RR) -15mm, 6.0kg/mm I was speaking this morning with the technical support rep from Bilstien Germany who is going to try and get me the info on the spec B setup. He told me that the inverted strut only comes in 3 configurations.

[apexjapan]

The Spec B coils are only a touch under the STi coil rates, in a car that is lighter - I'd love to know your definition of harsh ride. ;) BTW, I've had a friend try out some softer springs in his STi, and he loves the ride compared to before. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]