details on Spec B suspension

[nicd]

Who is going to ask a Japanese friend to translate for us???

 

The article is contained here: http://www.abeshokai.co.jp/clip/leggacy06_ki04.html

By the way if you want to be able to read this document you need to consult it on the original page as i could not post a larger picture here.

[SUBE555]

WOA, I see S402 mentioned at the bottom! ;)

[bemani]

Well I can't read all the small words but the big words says what is the difference between the oem bilstein and aftermarket bilstein.

[Dr. Zevil]

[quote name='SUBE555']WOA, I see S402 mentioned at the bottom! ;)[/quote] We need some better pics of that beast. I am a sucker for that edition. I can only imagine how cool the interior looks. I love the two toned leather in the older versions. AWESOME!

[SUBE555]

The question now is, how long until it's released. ;) (Sorry for the hijack. :mrgreen: )

[Mines]

I checked out the Bilstein japan site and they only have their comfort lineup available for the BP5/BL5 Legacys

[Dr. Zevil]

Who can read japanese?

[mccorry]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil'][quote name='SUBE555']WOA, I see S402 mentioned at the bottom! ;)[/quote] We need some better pics of that beast. I am a sucker for that edition. I can only imagine how cool the interior looks. I love the two toned leather in the older versions. AWESOME![/quote] Excuse my ignorance, but what is an S402?

[bemani]

S402 is NOTHING. S401 was the previous Legacy's STi version. Its just some people's wishful thinking that 'S402' would be this new Legacy's STi. As for the mention of S402, the article says STi is working with Bilstein on a new suspension, but unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be built for the purpose of an S402.

[SUBE555]

The S402 is the next itteration of the Special Edition Legacy STi models (not regular production models like our WRX STi.) It has just not bee released to date though.

[MSB]

For nicd - maybe try contacting the dealers in NZ, their top of the range car is more or less a specB setup, IIRC.

[kevinkingofimports.com]

On top of it.

[kevinkingofimports.com]

Here is what I can decipher so far: The Bilstein shocks are offered by Japan as OEM. They are talking about rebuilding shock absorbers. This is from the Legacy club magazine. It is actually an official subaru publication. The springs and struts that are painted yellow are struts and lowering springs. This I think is the touring strut. They do not appear to be adjustable. The application is BE, BH, BP, and BL. The silver ones with blue springs is a BFSS Type - Bilstein Super Strut. That is for BE,BH,BP,BL Legacies. They appear to be a coilover, but not mention of a drop. They appear adjustable if you look at the black collar. By adjusting that you may be able to adjust the load rate for springs. If you look at the yellow struts w/o springs, they do not have the same adjustment. The article says it costs about 10-15K yen to rebuild a strut. They also suggest you do it if you do any performance driving you rebuild it every 50K Kilometers. FYI, The New Zealand STi 402 is exactly the same car as the JDM STi 402.

[Dr. Zevil]

hey! there's the man! thanks for helping us out with the deciphering. the S402 will exist.. it's inevitable. Although, we most likely will never see it. Although, it would be a great marketing idea for Subaru since the american public probably thinks the STi is just the impreza version. Maybe this is a way to differentiate the Legacy STi from the Impreza STi.. so dumb americans won't get confused. :D

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']Who can read japanese?[/quote] I can...gimme a minute to decifpher this and I will post, it goes right with what I wanted to talk about today to. I spent a lot of time with my Leggy this weekend and the suspension has to go. I have done a lot of time on the twisties and and on straigt aways with my normal running buddies.. Mitusbishi Evo 8, Mazda Rx8 and A 350 Z.. The Leggy in a straight away would be walked by the Evo..Walk the RX8..and keep a brisk pace with the 350..but could not hang with ANY oft them in the twisties. I need to find out how I can get my hands on those Bilstiens PERIOD.

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='kevin@kingofimports.com']Here is what I can decipher so far: The Bilstein shocks are offered by Japan as OEM. They are talking about rebuilding shock absorbers. This is from the Legacy club magazine. It is actually an official subaru publication. The springs and struts that are painted yellow are struts and lowering springs. This I think is the touring strut. They do not appear to be adjustable. The application is BE, BH, BP, and BL. The silver ones with blue springs is a BFSS Type - Bilstein Super Strut. That is for BE,BH,BP,BL Legacies. They appear to be a coilover, but not mention of a drop. They appear adjustable if you look at the black collar. By adjusting that you may be able to adjust the load rate for springs. If you look at the yellow struts w/o springs, they do not have the same adjustment. The article says it costs about 10-15K yen to rebuild a strut. They also suggest you do it if you do any performance driving you rebuild it every 50K Kilometers. FYI, The New Zealand STi 402 is exactly the same car as the JDM STi 402.[/quote] Just to add what is already here. The artical breaks down the re-design proccess of the stock bilstien struts. They talk about the ballance of the gas and the pressure in the strut and how such a simple thing could add alot to the feel of the suspension. Currently they do have Bilstien lowering shocks for the Legacy and you can go to a autherized Subaru dealer in Japan and have your stock stuts updgraded by Bilstien. It cost about $100 dollars per strut for installation and it takes about a week to complete the full over hall. They also touched that the the suspension that is currently in design for the S402 is not what is currently available from Bilstien they stated that this will be a new design made to give unparalled controll on winding roads and not be to jarring as an every day driver. It stated once you have driven the S402's new suspension then you would not be able to go back to any other setting for the Legacy. Also, they stated that the A-spec normal Bilstiens and the re-built B spec-suspension may havesubtle diffrences that only the driver can decide wich one is better.

[SUBE555]

Are you still on stock rubber B4? Will be interesting to see how the Spec B suspension does on American roads. I know a bit of roads around me aren't too bad, others are atrocious.

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='SUBE555']Are you still on stock rubber B4? Will be interesting to see how the Spec B suspension does on American roads. I know a bit of roads around me aren't too bad, others are atrocious.[/quote] Yes, I am still on the stock rubber. But, I decided to give the RE92s a fair shake. They are made from a new re-designed compound and given a Z rateing. So, I wanted to see what they can do. My proffesional assesement is....THEY STILL SUCK. But, after I have spent the weekend testing the car and I have had several of my friends drive it to get their opinions and the overall assesment is was...awsome car for it's class...murders anything in its price range...but the suspension and tires are not set for performnace driveing ecspecialy on curved roads. I even find off ramps hard to tackle at speed in this car. And for me..I don't get my kicks from going fast in a straight line. We aslo felt the Leggy could be tuned back to provide more top end power. For me, I need to upgrade the handeling and suspension at all costs. Not just the rubbber.

[gtguy]

Hmmm, the on and off ramp thing is interesting, because getting off the highway at my suburb, there's an off ramp that is marked 35, but they're kidding. It's a good place to test a car's balance and stiction. With the WRX, it was 80 mph through the two sweepers, then about 40 for the 15 mph right-hander. With the GT on the RE92s, it was about 60 through the two sweepers, and 25 for the 15. With the P1/Dunlop 9000s, I'm not much slower than the WRX (STi suspension bits galore), probably about 5 mph off. It is a different suspension feel. Smooth and less ultimately communicative compared to the STi stuff, but it's a lot nicer ride, too. Kevin

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='gtguy']Hmmm, the on and off ramp thing is interesting, because getting off the highway at my suburb, there's an off ramp that is marked 35, but they're kidding. It's a good place to test a car's balance and stiction. With the WRX, it was 80 mph through the two sweepers, then about 40 for the 15 mph right-hander. With the GT on the RE92s, it was about 60 through the two sweepers, and 25 for the 15. With the P1/Dunlop 9000s, I'm not much slower than the WRX (STi suspension bits galore), probably about 5 mph off. It is a different suspension feel. Smooth and less ultimately communicative compared to the STi stuff, but it's a lot nicer ride, too. Kevin[/quote] I agree, the suspesnion is complient and smooth. I am going to try to quantify a feeling wich is pretty hard to do. Even in my 2001 Legacy I don't remember the floatieness that is overly present in the new Leggy. I took an off-ramp yesterday with the EVO and the RX8 cleanly going through it at 60..and my RE92's were protesting at 45... My RX8 being totaly derived of torque could easily hold that off-ramp at 60 plus mph..and exit with respectable speed. This is not something my current Legacy can do. Its also the lack of connection to the road and communication that I am used to. The current setting takes all of that away and creates a scary feeling of uneasieness at speed.. Its very disturbing for me and the type of driveing I am used to.

[SUBE555]

B4, I wouldn't ever give the RE92 that much credit. Despite a Z rating and some different compounds, it's still just that, an RE92. If it was different it would be named as such. Change out the rubber and give us a report back. ;) Would like to see the differences between stock rubber, much better rubber and much better rubber + Spec B if you could. :mrgreen: I'll be starting at step 2 so it will be harder to judge.

[B4_Maniac]

Roger. Looking at 225/45/17 Potenzza RE750s. 360 tread wear. What do you think?

[SUBE555]

If you want really good dry grip, for the like $20 difference per, I'd go with the Potenza 050's. Doesn't sound like you're shy about getting a better product, then that is what I'd go with. The guys in Japan seem to really like them as well as those who have S2000's where those tires come stock. The BFG g-Force KD Dry-performance tire always looks REALLY good as well. Not as hot in the wet, but really hot in the dry. The KDW 2's and Toyo T1-S are both supposed to be rather good overall and you might want to look at the Fuzion ZRi, it's new but might be a decent low-cost tire to burn up. I'd need to do a little more research on it before recommending, but so far it sounds decent. Vendors I've looked at are TireRack, 1010Tires.com, OnlineTires.com, and TreaDepot.com though there may be other decent ones. Only I've personally dealt with are TireRack and Treadepot and so far good results. Also note, don't be afraid to stay with a 215/45R-17 tire. On the 7" wide wheels it will give a bit more sturdy tire as it is a hair shorter and will sit a bit more square. 225/45R-17 will fit without an issue, but with a good 215 tire you shouldn't worry about grip.

[gtguy]

[quote name='SUBE555']Also note, don't be afraid to stay with a 215/45R-17 tire. On the 7" wide wheels it will give a bit more sturdy tire as it is a hair shorter and will sit a bit more square. 225/45R-17 will fit without an issue, but with a good 215 tire you shouldn't worry about grip.[/quote] Egg-sactly. If you a 215 on a 7" rim, even though the 225 will look cooler, I'm betting that because of the tire not being as square, skidpad numbers would be identical, if not to the slight advantage of the 215. Also remember that more tire=more grip=more rolling resistance=poorer fuel economy, increased tramlining, etc. Moving from RE92s to Dunlop 9000s, cornering speeds increased, braking distance decreased, and braking/steering feel improved. Huge difference. My WRX with the STi suspension bit, went over bumps and the car bucked. "Yo! Bump," would be what it would say, were it able to speak. The Legacy hits a bump, and says "No worries. Got 'cha covered." The Legacy also has much less bump instability, mid-curve, than my WRX did. Kevin

[B4_Maniac]

I think I am looking for good wet/dry performance. I am glad you guys think the 215s would be fine. Your the first I heard recomend that. Good heads up! Pay day is around the corner..so I am already allocateing the funds for new rubber. I will keep my RE92's for the winter. Oh, and just a heads up, I got a email from my parts rep saying that his contact at corporate said the Bilstiens would not fit the USDM Legacy...I think thats realy fishy.. Thats why they are going with Eibach.. Why in hell would they not fit??