Fido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 He works at a Subaru dealership and has seemed pretty knowledgeable, but yesterday I asked him about the head gasket issues in my car (it doesn't have them, but I'm paranoid). It's a 97 GT Sedan with one of the US EJ25 engines... According to the mechanic, it's a Phase I engine and isn't prone to HG issues as opposed to the Phase II? He said his girlfriend has a Legacy with the same body style as mine (that is, 2nd gen) and she has the Phase II engine and he's had to fix HGs on it already. My engine is stock... isn't it the type that's most prone to HG failure? Or is he right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 yes, he is full of crap. how long has he been working for the dealer.? all 97 ej25s are phase 1 DOHC and are prone to bad head gsakets with exhaust leaking into the coolant. that's not to say you could not put a phase 2 ej25 into a 97 car, but it would take a lot of time and a bunch of money. well a lot more time and money than a phase 1 engine anyway. how many miles on your engine? how long have you had it? any chance the last owner had them done? i bought a 97 outback with 98k and it new HGs. some went bad at 60k and some are only now going bad at 220k miles. there is no real way to prevent them from going bad except replacing them. but an unrelated over heating, any over heating, could maybe possibly trigger them going bad. so keep your cooling system topped off and operating correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Figured as much. It's got 130k. I think they might've been done already, but there's no way to be sure. It was well maintained, basically. I've had it since September, the place I bought it from got it at auction and there's no history of maintenance except what little I could gather from the Carfax and the service manual in the dashboard that shows it was regularly serviced until 2002 or so, when it was presumably sold to a new owner who didn't keep such records, but still obviously kept the car in excellent shape (no signs of rust, transmission is doing very well, etc). There's another thread somewhere by me called "Am I Getting Ripped Off?" where I give a bit more info. This thread was just to figure out this one comment he made... it's weird. He seemed to know his stuff, he specializes in Subarus... he mentioned head gasket issues off the bat with typical problems for these cars, and only in a drive-along did he tell me mine wasn't prone to these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 6, 2012 I Donated Share Posted June 6, 2012 He is right and wrong at the same time. Phase II engines had an external leak on the head gaskets. Phase I engines (what you have) had an internal leak. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelFlounder Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 96 LGT Phase I here... had to do my HG's at 145k because of overheating due to an internal leak. The gaskets that were in there were friggin paper. They had been changed before. Just keep an eye out for a slight temp rise under normal driving and if you're super paranoid sniff your coolant overflow for exhaust every week. And if you ever do them, make sure you use multi-layer steel gaskets. Felpro makes them and we sell them at Advance Auto for around $40 per head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToFast4uSupra Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey guys Im new to subarus and had a few questions about the head gaskets too. Sorry op not trying to butt in but is it just the actual gaskets that are the issue or the design of the heads the head studs or just the factory torque specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 torque specs have not changed but the head gaskets have. i took a 00 ej25 part yesterday, the gaskets looked like they had black paper on them, both sides. the new replacement gaskets don't, go figure. (this engine died from a bad rod bearing on #3, not bad gaskets.) there is a turbo engine gasket (part number enfding in 610) that is the recommended gasket to use for all applications, or so i hear. i think in the 05 plus years the gasket issue is much less severe. it still happens but not like 96 - 99 or 00 - 02/3/4. i'm guessing, and this is just speculation on my part, the frequency of bad head gaskets in late model ej25s is higher than the ej22 of the 90s but probably less than the failure rate industry wide. otherwise their reputation would be crap. or at least headed that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToFast4uSupra Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Right on thanks. So if it did come to doing the head gaskets use a multi layer metal gasket and new factory bolts no need to go ARP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 yes to the multi-layer SUBARU gaskets and no to the bolts. the bolts you can re-use. they are not TTY, torque-to-yield. of course there are folks here who will disagree with me, but no where in the FSM does it say to use new bolts. new gaskets, yes, new bolts no. it also never says to re-use the bolts either. but lots of folks do including the dealers. but the way dealers do things may not be a real good recommendation, what ever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToFast4uSupra Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Lol alright thanks man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelFlounder Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 MLS head gasket is a must. Being SUBARU made is debatable... my Felpro set was very beefy, four layers. By the time you get into the motor you'll understand why you would spend like $10 extra to not do it again. I had to do mine on extreme budget, and most people told me to get new head bolts. Didn't have to and did the whole thing for less than $300 including new water pump, tensioner and all. I just checked my head bolts for warping and felt for unnecessary catching when I put them back in before torqueing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJay03 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 So these would be the good ones to use? http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=3782 Looks like the PN ends in 610B What else should I replace with my HG's besides the timing belt and cam seals? Does that kit come with everything I need for the VC gaskets I thought I read you needed the plug seals separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 15, 2012 I Donated Share Posted June 15, 2012 Head Gaskets Valve Cover Gaskets Intake Manifold Gasket Thermostat Timing belt Timing Components Water Pump Spark Plugs Spark Plug Wires Head Bolts (debatable, i prefer to replace them though) Crank seal Cam seals Oil Pump (depending on mileage) -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJay03 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I have 140k Just replaced my t-stat thinking about doing the hoses also. Going to pull my TB off the intake also and the IAC and clean everything good there too so ill need those gaskets. Oh my wires are also new NGK's. Head bolts are 9 dollars a piece whew! Head Gaskets Valve Cover Gaskets Intake Manifold Gasket Thermostat Timing belt Timing Components Water Pump Spark Plugs Spark Plug Wires Head Bolts (debatable, i prefer to replace them though) Crank seal Cam seals Oil Pump (depending on mileage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Oil Separator Plate: http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=796&pictureid=4398 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJay03 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I meant to mention that too. What do you use for sealant on it? Does the Flex plate have to be put back on in the same position? Is that a new plate you put on yours or did you just clean the original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Use Permatex Grey RTV sealant for the oil separator plate. Or use Fujibond, $40 a tube from the dealer. Definitely get the new separator plate. The old one was plastic, then changed, and now the new one is steel. The flex plate can go back in any position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJay03 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Cool thanks. Oh that permatex gray is that the same stuff you use for the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 16, 2012 I Donated Share Posted June 16, 2012 In my experience, Fujibond holds better over the long run. There are other variations of it that you can use though. You can go to the Ford dealer and pick up what they use on the Super Duty trucks. Its marked by International, but I dunno who makes it. Its better then the Fuji Bond. Honda also has their stuff. Its half the price of Fuji Bond and is literally the same thing. I never use Permatex. I usually keep a tube or two of the International stuff that I get from the Ford dealer. Honestly, its the best stuff I've come across yet. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelFlounder Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 So these would be the good ones to use? http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=3782 Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJay03 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Thats good to know. So it just says international on it? There is a fords dealer right down the street from me. In my experience, Fujibond holds better over the long run. There are other variations of it that you can use though. You can go to the Ford dealer and pick up what they use on the Super Duty trucks. Its marked by International, but I dunno who makes it. Its better then the Fuji Bond. Honda also has their stuff. Its half the price of Fuji Bond and is literally the same thing. I never use Permatex. I usually keep a tube or two of the International stuff that I get from the Ford dealer. Honestly, its the best stuff I've come across yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted June 16, 2012 I Donated Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yeah. Its in a grey tube and its grey RTV... It says International on it. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 i was getting prices on all the same stuff last friday for my wagon and asked the parts guy about the sealant for the oil pump. he told me to get the black rtv from any auto parts store. i was glad to hear that, i use it for all kinds of stuff. i even used it as a temporary case chunk on a 84 corolla thermostat housing that had broke. 3 weeks wait for a new part from the dealer, none at any pick and pulls in the valley that werent already cracked. we used the black rtv and rebuilt the broken corner, it held for 2 weeks while we waited for the part to show up. ill be using it on my parts as well, hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludgeroo Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I wonder if some of the structural rtv I have at work would be as good as the international rtv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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