Legend Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I like how you picked the quickest 4th gen and the slowest 5th gen times for 0-60. As speeds increase, the 5th gen pulls away. Stock for stock. And I'm not sure you're right about most 5th gens remaining stock. Sure, they aren't being modded to the point of the 4th gens, but you're a flash away from mid 13s, and stage 2 cars are hitting high 12s. Maybe if we had a banjo filter to get clogged up and aid in turbo destruction we would have more replacement turbo options? I like the 4th gen cars, and if you want to have a larger variety of aftermarket parts, its the way to go. If on the other hand you would be happy at stage 2 power levels and or need the extra space for kids, then i think the 5th gen is the better choice. Road and Track is my source for 0-60 for both cars. First and only place I looked. No cherry picking at all. I even said that performance is in the same noise range and different tests different days and I'd consider them about equal, despite what appears to be a big advantage, I don't buy into it either. I agree with everything you said including stock for stock 5th gen is the way to go and if you need space it is the obvious choice also. It is the better choice for most people, but not everyone. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 5th gens have too much legroom for me. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookingforanusp Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 I'm so glad I started this thread. Guys coming from an 02 maxima se w/hlsd I think I'm leaning towards the 5th gen. I really like having the space but at the same time I'd like something a bit nimbler. And then I return to consideration of an 05. Is there a banjo filter removal mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookingforanusp Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 A moderator should sticky this because this has become a really useful thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Is there a banjo filter removal mod? Takes 20 minutes start to finish with the proper tools (17mm stubby wrench iirc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 And I'm not sure you're right about most 5th gens remaining stock. Sure, they aren't being modded to the point of the 4th gens, but you're a flash away from mid 13s, and stage 2 cars are hitting high 12s. BL GTs are also just a flash away from mid 13s and and can run 12 second .25s stg 2. It just depends if you can drive and how much you want to beat on your car. The only BM GT I've seen with a 12 second time slip is Rutchard's and his car is pretty well tuned for being stg 2. Most BL/BP guys including myself just go with e-tunes. There was a local guy that used to run high 12s at Atco in his 05 non-ltd with just a downpipe and dyno tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas569 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 LGT died after 09 'nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too laff79 Posted May 27, 2012 I Donated Too Share Posted May 27, 2012 cliff notes for this thread: 05-09-------------------------vs.---------------------10+ http://foolishmind.com/img01/fat-vs-slim05.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Now this thread should be stickied. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 BL GTs are also just a flash away from mid 13s and and can run 12 second .25s stg 2. It just depends if you can drive and how much you want to beat on your car. The only BM GT I've seen with a 12 second time slip is Rutchard's and his car is pretty well tuned for being stg 2. Most BL/BP guys including myself just go with e-tunes. There was a local guy that used to run high 12s at Atco in his 05 non-ltd with just a downpipe and dyno tune. Rutchard ran 12.9 with cobbs ots stage 2 map. And another member posted a 12.9 with a ots tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Rutchard ran 12.9 with cobbs ots stage 2 map. And another member posted a 12.9 with a ots tune. Plz post a link, I searched all over and could not find any evidence of him running that time. TY. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas569 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 4th gen owners http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41832&d=1188287231 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'm so glad I started this thread. Guys coming from an 02 maxima se w/hlsd I think I'm leaning towards the 5th gen. I really like having the space but at the same time I'd like something a bit nimbler. And then I return to consideration of an 05. Is there a banjo filter removal mod? I came from an 01 Maxima SE AE and bought a 4th gen and couldn't be happier. I like the fact that I have 4 useful seats but the car is smaller handles better and rides better than my max did on Eibachs and Illuminas. I just like a more tossable car and I feel like the 4th generation gives me that. I'm not a fan of the ashtetics of the 5th gen and as such I bought what I thought looked better. Though the 5th gen is growing on me. Also the claim that 5th gens handle better based off of skid pad numbers is kind of funny since 4th gens (other than spec. B) had rather bad tires and the 5th gen comes with dedicated summer tires. Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutchard Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Its also pretty common knowledge that the 5th gen 6MT is no where near as beefy as the sti/spec.b 6MT. Not sure how it compares to the 5MT though. I actually don't think it is common knowledge, maybe common speculation. There aren't enough 5th gens pushing major power yet to make it common knowledge. Nobody's grenaded one at stage 2 yet and I'm well past those torque levels on E85. I autocross and go to the drag strip pretty regularly and mine is still holding up fine, it isn't babied at all Plz post a link, I searched all over and could not find any evidence of him running that time. TY. timeslips http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3550098&postcount=46 video http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3740918&postcount=75 Those runs are on the Cobb Stage 2 map, Invidia TBE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Weight gains are quite small... 62lbs <<200 lbs for 2007 to 2010 transition 49lbs for 2009 2007 GT 5MT: 3415lbs 2009 GT 5MT: 3428lbs 2010 LGT 6MT: 3477lbs 2010 gains in rear leg room, HP, TQ, better stopping distance, improved gas mileage, reduced turbo lag. The minor increase in weight is negligible over the gains. Much much greater return on every performance $$: Stage I 2010 LGT >= Stage II 2007-2009 LGT/Spec B So why did you conveniently omit the '05 (especially) and the '06? There is >150lbs difference between an '05 unlimited and an '07. The biggest weight gains were '05-'06 and '06-'07. Why start your comparison in '07? :confused: But other than that, sir, I agree with you. I would take a 2010 over an '08-'09. My personal hierarchy: 1) '05 Unlimited: Rare, best power-to-weight of any 2.5L LGT 1a) '06 Spec B: The most rare, not yet bloated 2) '07 Spec B: Got heavy, but still pretty rare and 6MT 2a) '10: Overall improvement from '08-'09, love the tq 2b) '11-'12: ", but I like to avoid close-out years. 4) '08-'09: All the weight of a 5th-gen, but with no improvements and ugly rear '- My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too laff79 Posted May 28, 2012 I Donated Too Share Posted May 28, 2012 ^^^I'm number one!!! YAY! '05 LGT unlimited. 5EAT though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyLimePi3 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 ^^^I'm number one!!! YAY! '05 LGT unlimited. 5EAT though I'm 1a... WITH A LETTER!!! Who's got the bigger willy now Anyway, this thread is silly. Just go test drive both and see what suits you better. You might love one and hate another or love both/hate both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 1) '05 Unlimited: Rare, best power-to-weight of any 2.5L LGT Must be the new math... 2005 LGT non-limited = 3300 lbs / 250 hp = 13.2 lbs/hp 2010 LGT premium = 3440 lbs / 265 hp = 12.98 lbs/hp Seems to me the 05 unlimited is not quite the best power to weight ratio of any LGT... maybe if we look at some of the other 2010-2012 LGTs, one of them will have a worse lb/hp ratio.... um - nope - even the 2012 LGT limited has a lower lbs/hp ratio than the 2005 LGT non-limited... it's close, though, at 13.14 lbs/hp... maybe you meant to say "the 2005 LGT unlimited has the best power-to-weight ratio of any 2.5LGT made prior to the 2010 model year"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Should be 3275lbs and 3477lbs so 13.09 vs. 13.12 in favor of the '05.. I actually didn't realized how close it was. We can call it a tie then or we can even use your curb weights (contradicting numbers another 5th-gener quoted above) and give the '10 a slight victory in stock form. BUT, you are talking about the cars in stock form. Like I said before, for most people the stock 5th-gen is better than the stock 4th-gen. When modding the car near the limits of the stock 2.5L the ceiling and potential for either 4th or 5th gen is the same and the extra 200lbs ('05 vs '10) do come into play. We've even seen the difference here on the dragstrip b/w my '05 and a buddy's '06 Spec (~150 lbs difference). Our dyno's are about the same, both stock blocks near the limit, but I'm able to trap a few mph more and e.t. a few tenths less less since my '05 tips the scales at 3235lbs at the dragstrip scale (spare removed, less than 1/4 tank). My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Since I brought up drag racing, I think comparing Rutchard and his '10 to me and my '05 reveals a lot too. We were both the first to convert to E85 for our models and we both document and share our dragracing experience along the mod path. I've watched his timeslips carefully and I'm happy to say that my '05 has nothing on his '10 at the dragstrip of power levels of stage 2e or less. In fact, I think he would eek out 1mph greater trap and 0.1-0.2 less e.t. So I will expand on my earlier statement "5th gen better than 4th gen stock for stock" and say that 5th>4th gen up to stage 2e levels as well. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I autocross and go to the drag strip pretty regularly and mine is still holding up fine, it isn't babied at all This is true - your 60' time shows this Thanks for the links, nice runs. Times look similar to 4th gens with same mods although I don't know of anyone that is stg2 with E85. Typical 4th gen stage 2s run mid to low 13s without E85. Are you running stock clutch and intercooler? Those were always the weak link with 4th gens. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Should be 3275lbs and 3477lbs Not sure where the 3275 comes from - Subaru says 3300 in all of their official pubs - both the brochure and the service manual... From Subaru (brochures and the service manuals for the 05, 08, 09, 10, and 12) 05 LGT sedan 3300lbs, LGT limited sedan 3365lbs 06 LGT limited 3365lbs 07 LGT limited 3415lbs, LGT spec B 3515 lbs 08 LGT limited 3415lbs, LGT spec B 3530 lbs 09 LGT limited 3428 lbs, LGT spec B 3543 lbs 10 LGT premium 3440 lbs, LGT limited 3477 lbs 11 LGT limited 3477 lbs 12 LGT limited 3483 lbs one interesting fact, note that the 5th generation gained only 49 lbs over the 4th... thats 1.4% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 My 05 Ltd weighed 3335 with half a tank of gas and a large carrier of my personal crap in the trunk. Take reported data with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 ^^ I believe it. My '05 UnLtd weighs 3235 at the dragstrip. 463hp (converted to crank for comparisons with above), so 6.98lbs/hp on OEM stock block. But in all fairness, the curb weight fudging, rounding, or whatever effect ought to be consistent across the model years so our anecdotal evidence really doesn't change the weight differences presented by DrD123. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutchard Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Are you running stock clutch and intercooler? Those were always the weak link with 4th gens. I was for the 12.9 runs on the Cobb map, now I've got an upgraded TMIC and clutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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