dmanaenk Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Same as last year, returned from the Detroit autoshow with an impression that there's no objective reason to replace my '08 spec.b. I've been bored with it for a while, however, so it's getting even more boring by the day. Got two options: Replace the spec with '12 STI hatch. Less luxuries, more performance, more utility, also - a lot more NVH during DD. Keep the spec (paid off, have 7/100k warranty for 2.5 more years), get a BRZ to take care of boredom. Major cons: 1-car garage (not moving for a while), likely a bump in insurance, 1st model-year car. I don't like my cars modded beyond suspension mods. STI will probably require some RCE coilovers to make it livable on local pothole-filled roads. Would like to hit 2-3 track days this summer. Opinions? Thanks! 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Keep it at least until the warranty runs out. Save your $$$ for bigger and better things. Or look at a weekend toy and keep the Spec for a DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you want something not boring, why would you get a BRZ? If you want a lightweight RWD platform, buy an old E30 or a Miata. 100% more fun than a BRZ will be. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you want something not boring, why would you get a BRZ? If you want a lightweight RWD platform, buy an old E30 or a Miata. 100% more fun than a BRZ will be. There's a BRZ-bashing thread. Pls go there. Thanks. Keep it at least until the warranty runs out. Save your $$$ for bigger and better things. Or look at a weekend toy and keep the Spec for a DD. I hear you. I don't think I want just a weekend toy. I'd like something fun-to-drive that I'd be taking to work too during the three non-snow seasons. And to the track a few times, not for quick lap times, but for enjoyment. If I get something like this, the spec will be a winter-beater +long trips +when I'm expected to drive a few colleagues few times a year. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll buy the spec B from you for $500 and you can go buy whatever you want. BRZ or sti or whatever. I'll buy it running or not for $500. Pm me if that's what you want to do. Ok Real opinion, I say keep the Spec if those are the only 2 cars you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzymt Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sell the SpecB & buy my 1-yo 2011 Audi S4 then. Get awesome torque, awesome power, awesome handling, awesome luxury & awesome toys for only $45K? [CENTER][URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18504"]Subaru Plug & Play Aux-in Mod[/URL][/CENTER] [CENTER][URL="http://www.jazzyengineering.com"]www.jazzyengineering.com[/URL][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 ^ Yeah, saw your ad in the other thread. No manual=0% chance of sale to me. That, and I bet around here I'll be bending 19inchers twice as often as I bend 18". I thought about a used S4, but would like to get smth new for once. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What about the VW R32? AWD, 6-sped, turbo, available as a 2 or 4 door hatchback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 ^Why would I want to downgrade from spec to another used car? In case you meant '12 golf R, it's underpowered and it's interior is not up to specb's level. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL21376 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I meant the 2012. I suppose its debatable as to being underpowered...256 HP, ~3300 lbs. I doubt it will be significantly slower than a LGT though. But to say the spec b has a nicer interior is a stretch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Buying any VW made in the last 10-12 years is a downgrade in reliability. And power. And quality. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The new Golf R looks really nice except for the Haldex AWD. Which ruins it for me. Drive a Haldex car hard and it feels like FWD without the wheel spin. It's understeer city any time you so much as think about the throttle. Since you track your car it will frustrate you coming from a Subaru, guaranteed. (Not to mention all it takes is an electrical problem to turn the car into 2WD, and we all know how reliable VW electronics are.) Go take an RX-8 for a spin. Seriously. I did recently and was very pleasantly surprised. It might be exactly the 2nd car you're looking for. It drives almost like a big Miata. Steering feel is great, handling is impeccable, it has that low-slung sports car feel, and yet it's comfortable, roomy, and even rides really well (for a sports car), plus visibility is good (again for a sports car). They're also cheaper and more reliable to track than a turbo Subaru. I'm considering one as a second car to complement my STI hatch. Speaking of the STI hatch, since you're worried about NVH it's not the car for you. NVH is significantly higher than in an LGT or most other new cars. To me it adds to the experience. I love hearing the engine itself (vs just the exhaust), hearing the transmission whine, etc. It helps involve me in the driving. Also an STI will be every bit as expensive to track as your LGT both in terms of general prep and per-day consumables, if that matters to you. It's super fun on the track but the costs add up. I agree that the BR-Z looks really promising on paper. If the steering is as good as an RX-8's I could see myself getting a used BR-Z when they've been out for a few years. I've bought both new and used cars over the years. Honestly the new premium is only worth it if one of the following is true: You will baby it for years to come to keep it mint. That means garaging at home and work, no chasing storms / winter driving with it, no street parking in the city, etc. For me this would mean never using the car.There's a car you really want that just came out, and you can comfortably afford it new. Then go for it, you only live once. The BR-Z might fall in this category for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Or look at a weekend toy and keep the Spec for a DD. This. And a Miata or other car for fun/track... Having recently bought one, I can tell you Miatas (early ones, anyway) are a hoot to drive, cheap, and easy to work on. If you want more HP, how 'bout a C5 Z06? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah, if you don't mind a Miata, I'd say pick one up for $2k and use the Spec B as a DD for a bit longer and can save up more. I guess another question is, if you were to keep the Spec B for another 2.5 years what would you do then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 OP, if you're tall there isn't really any way to keep an old Miata streetable while making yourself fit and making it safe on the street & track. Think broomstick test with a helmet on, and all the implications thereof. Not to mention you probably won't fit at all in the first place without a racing shell on the floor. If your height is more...Japanese , you should fit fine in an old Miata. I haven't been in a latest gen Miata, they look bigger and probably fit tall people much better. Also the OP mentioned refinement as a concern. If an STI hatch isn't refined enough then an old Miata won't be either. Don't get me wrong, they're great cars, I just don't think they're what the OP is looking for. They are definitely worth a test fit+drive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 OP, if you're tall there isn't really any way to keep an old Miata streetable while making yourself fit and making it safe on the street & track. Think broomstick test with a helmet on, and all the implications thereof. Not to mention you probably won't fit at all in the first place without a racing shell on the floor. If your height is more...Japanese , you should fit fine in an old Miata. I haven't been in a latest gen Miata, they look bigger and probably fit tall people much better. There are a number of surprisingly large people on the Miata forum that fit well, and the early cars (NA/NB) are actually roomier than the '05+ (NC) cars. Removing the door panel arm rests is one of the first mods I did, and gives a lot more interior space. However, if you need to pass a broomstick test, and you're over 6', you're going to have issues. Most solve this with a race seat, bolted to the floor, which is not really a viable option if you need to retain seat adjustability for multiple drivers. Some have had success with a 'foamectomy', removing foam from the factory seat to lower the seating position. An aftermarket wheel helps with interior space as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 OP, if you're tall there isn't really any way to keep an old Miata Old miatas (NA/NB) are too old. I'd like something with a bunch of airbags and modern frame. Not a big fan of NC Miatas. And I'm more fat than tall, and NA/NB Miatas are uncomfortable for me. And I had a Miata not too long ago. Also the OP mentioned refinement as a concern. If an STI hatch isn't refined enough then an old Miata won't be either. Don't get me wrong, they're great cars, I just don't think they're what the OP is looking for. They are definitely worth a test fit+drive though. I'm not really too concerned. In DD STI would be fine, especially on decent aftermarket adjustable suspension. Might get annoying for me/passengers on longer drives, not too sure about this one. I guess another question is, if you were to keep the Spec B for another 2.5 years what would you do then? Sell? Replace with something 'refined with some punch' for DD. If you want more HP, how 'bout a C5 Z06? In some other life. Don't like the look of any Vette, except maybe some from late 60s =) Go take an RX-8 for a spin. Seriously. I did recently and was very pleasantly surprised. It might be exactly the 2nd car you're looking for. It drives almost like a big Miata. Steering feel is great, handling is impeccable, it has that low-slung sports car feel, and yet it's comfortable, roomy, and even rides really well (for a sports car), plus visibility is good (again for a sports car). They're also cheaper and more reliable to track than a turbo Subaru. I'm considering one as a second car to complement my STI hatch. Yeah, it's my back-up if BRZs somehow get delayed or end-up costing smth ridiculous. But I'd like to avoid buying engine oil weekly if I can help it. Speaking of the STI hatch, since you're worried about NVH it's not the car for you. NVH is significantly higher than in an LGT or most other new cars. To me it adds to the experience. I love hearing the engine itself (vs just the exhaust), hearing the transmission whine, etc. It helps involve me in the driving. Also an STI will be every bit as expensive to track as your LGT both in terms of general prep and per-day consumables, if that matters to you. It's super fun on the track but the costs add up. Like I said above. For DD my commute isn't long enough and has plenty of ramps and roundabouts, so I'll be fine with NVH. If it annoys me too much on longer trips - I suppose I can just rent. That would annoy me too though, for different reasons. Would STI tranny whine more than spec? Should be similar, minus some sound deadening. I agree that the BR-Z looks really promising on paper. If the steering is as good as an RX-8's I could see myself getting a used BR-Z when they've been out for a few years. Reviews were praising steering, so I'm hopeful. I've bought both new and used cars over the years. Honestly the new premium is only worth it if one of the following is true: You will baby it for years to come to keep it mint. That means garaging at home and work, no chasing storms / winter driving with it, no street parking in the city, etc. For me this would mean never using the car.There's a car you really want that just came out, and you can comfortably afford it new. Then go for it, you only live once. The BR-Z might fall in this category for you. I generally buy used, but with years value of my time goes up, so finding what I like gets more and more expensive in terms of forgone time. So I'd like to try new this time around. But you're right about garaging etc, which has me concerned, since I only got on space. I suppose I can store it during winters. Seems like a solution similar to 'renting for longer-distance driving'. Doable, but a hassle. I meant the 2012. I suppose its debatable as to being underpowered...256 HP, ~3300 lbs. I doubt it will be significantly slower than a LGT though. But to say the spec b has a nicer interior is a stretch I sat in it at the autoshow. Right before leaving. And then hopped into the spec. There's nothing I could highlight that's better in R, and it's missing some features, like seat position memory. The only thing that even made me consider it - it's an awd+6mt+has a liftgate. A rare combo these days. Major argument in favor of an STI: if I don't get it now, next time I'm shopping for a car is gonna be in about 2-3 years, meaning ever increasing weight on 'refinement' etc. Might end up never owning an STI (and who knows if they are not discontinued in 2-3 years). Anyway, thanks guys for your opinions. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I feel you on wanting modern safety. That was definitely a draw for the STI hatch over an old Evo. It doesn't get much safer than a Subaru. 6MT whine: I've never been in a Spec.B but I'm guessing it's like you say, no different than the STI except for sound deadening. Which is quite different. Yeah the STI is plenty refined for commuting, and it's not bad for road trips. I use mine for ski trips all winter (3-5 hours each way) and the occasional other road trip, and I don't mind it. DCCD and front+rear LSD's are awesome in the snow. But it's definitely noisier than my LGT wagon was. Engine and turbo noise are always present unless you're coasting, and then you still have tire roar. The stock tires get ungodly loud btw. If you get an STI I recommend selling the tires while they're new (i.e. worth something) and getting some RE-11's. About the STI in 2-3 years time: Subaru has announced that the next generation WRX and STI will be much smaller and lighter than the current one. They'll have their own chassis separate from the Impreza. How much smaller and lighter is of course not known yet, and it could mean a cramped interior. I do have to give Subaru props for recognizing that they've taken the Impreza too far in a direction that's not appropriate for the WRX/STI. I could see them doing a by year where they don't build many/any of the current gen right before introducing the new one, but the WRX and STI will be back, and probably better than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katalyst Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 would you consider a used E90 3-series ? (maybe E92 / coupe) i think with the new F30 body coming out, that should drop their resale price a bit. that would have all the safety features you're looking for while being fun to drive and a bit more refined. and not necessarily a "step down" in luxury from the spec B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 370z? I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 would you consider a used E90 3-series ? (maybe E92 / coupe) Would like to get something new this time. And I tried to look for a 6-speed 335xi coupe/sedan. Very hard to find. 370z? A bit rich for what I'd like to spend. So, if anything, I'd consider '13 2.0Т Genesis coupe, but lightweight BRZ would win that comparo in my book. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 New, cheap, fast, and refined? You seem conflicted SpecB is the best of what you've listed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENCOB Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Twin turbo it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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