RangerMan Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 In the Auto vs. Manual debate it all comes down to personal preferance. My wife and I HATE driving an automatic tranny. In the last 2 weeks I have driven my father-in-law's '89 Corvette and a rental Mustang both automatics. Never liked waiting for the kickdown, the gear searching and the boredom my left foot was developing! I drive 15 miles each way to work in moderate to heavy traffic with a manual. It isn't the most pleasant thing to do 5 times a week but when I had an automatic (rental) the drive still stunk... We just enjoy driving a stick so much more than an auto, that an automatic isn't even an option for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Come up too quick, what are u talking about Sube, you were saying in earlier posts that ppl should make redline their best friend. Then again you could also make bouncing off the rev limiter a major sport in the states as it is here in OZ. On a serious note, if pushed the engine past the 6.5K reline, what do u think the engine could handle rev wise? Obvioulsy the 6.5 redline is a guide for safety and overall reliability but what power would still be ontap after say 6K ? in either the 5EAT or 5MT ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcchicken Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 OK....I've been agonizing over this for a while now....it's the only thing stopping me from placing my order. I don't want to debate the subjective factors like convenience on so on. I'd love to see some hard numbers. I beleive the 5MT is good for 5.8secs to 60 right? Is there any numbers for the auto? I have test driven each version. Loved the stick. Auto was quite nice too but even in sport mode seemed a little lazy with gear selection. (put the hammer down up a large hill and must have only dropped one gear cause it struggled) I'm not even going to compain about that because I could have been picking my own gears. What I was concerned about was acceleration immediately off the line. I realize this is where the auto will lose but I'm suprised by how much. It seemed really lazy off the line. Could the lazyness have anything to do with the fact that the vehicle I took my test drive in isn't yet broken in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Off the line, the auto is never going to feel as quick as a manual. It's just the nature of the mechanical setup. However, the 5EAT (along with the engine) does break in over time. I'm at 750 miles now and I have noticed that my LGT wagon responds quicker off the line. In Sport mode, I can hear the turbo spooling up faster and stronger at a given rpm compared to normal "D" mode. I think what you were experiencing was a very green vehicle. Also, keep in mind that turbos respond to rolling onto the throttle vs. mashing the pedal. Where I think the 5EAT shines is the ability to change gears either from the steering wheel or the gear selector. When going down some twisties, it's nice to be able to remain focused on the road and down/upshift at a flick of the thumb and always hit smooth shifts. It's also handy when passing cars: you can simply thumb down a gear rather than having the TCU decide to downshift. I do miss driving stick, but it's probably as good as one can get with a torque-converter auto. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I wonder if manual transmissions are going the way of vinyl records and corded telephones. I notice that other drivers give me less space to roll back on a hill than was the case several years ago. I could be going up a steep parking lot ramp, and the person behind me will stop about 6 inches behind me because he assumes that I have an automatic like him. I prefer manuals. I may be biased, but I like to think I'm the best computer for my transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAckhouse1 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='SoldonSubie']I believe the auto is rated at 19/24 while I know the manual is rated at 19/25. [/quote] Actually both Manual and Auto are rated at 19/25 -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Momo, I have to agree, they are being phased out like most things manual. All you have to do is look at the Supercars, they are moving away from manual to F1 type paddle systems and Im sure that in the next few years you will see CART and WRC moving more towards these trends. The new generation M5 V10 has a 7 speed sequential Manual Gearbox, first car ever with a 7 speed SMG box in a road car outside of F1. This is not an automatic but a true manual box. The clutch is totally computer controlled although relies on the drivers input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailgt Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 But how about the feel of the two awd systems? Does the auto's awd feel better? Has anyone driven either off-road or in really bad road conditions? I have read tha if you are coming down a pass and let off of the gas the auto will downshift a gear which is nice to have. i drive colo mtn passes all winter and have always used a manual due to its ability to control spped better. i presently drive a gsr vtec which has amazing throttle control, which subaru also claims for the new gt models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.di.martino Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Have not driven a manual GT however I also have a manual WRX which I assume has a similar AWD system to the manual GT. The manual AWD system tends to understeer when pushed hard around corners. I have not noticed any understeer on the GT even when pushed hard around the same corners. In relation to the auto downshifting a gear when lifting of the gas coming down a hill, this is mentioned in the owners manaul. You can alway change down a gear using the steering wheel switches even when the transmission is in full auto mode. This is useful when engine braking is required. The transmission will then automatically upshift when required, as opposed to full manual mode where all up shifts and down shifts are by the driver. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailgt Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 has anyone driven a new legacy or B4 auto awd in the snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Pardon me, but although I have been logged on the list, I didn't order my GT Limited wagon until the other day. I haven't read al of the comments in this "Auto vs Manual" thread, so don't beat me up too badly!! I intended to buy a 5-speed all along, but last week I test-drove an auto and a manual. The auto is very sweet for what it is, but within a minute of driving the manual, it was obvious to me that this was the way to go. For all-out full-throttle races, they may be equal, but in around-town driving the way I drive, the manual is noticably quicker. FWIW, I'm selling a 5-speed car for the Legacy, and my "summer car" is also a 5-speed, and I have been driving manual trannies for 38 years (yes, I'm an old fart!!). Ron Porter Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailgt Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 rporter how did the 2 awd systems feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 [quote name='vailgt']rporter how did the 2 awd systems feel?[/quote] I have not owned an AWD car before..... Anyway, the handling & feel was excellent!! When I drove the automatic sedan, i was able to hit a Meijer parking lot and play slalom around the islands. The car did very well. I later drove the 5-speed manual GT wagon that handled the same, but felt more powerful. Steering feel and braking were excellent. For my background, I have been a Taurus SHO driver for the last 15 years. I do the dragstrip and track events, the most recent was the SHO Convention two weeks ago near San Francisco (in Vallejo), and we did Thunderhill north of Sacramento. I have done Gingerman, Blackhawk Farms, Summit Point, Hallett, Road Atlanta, and Mid-Ohio over the last number of years in a SHO. I also belong to PCA, but my 911 is a cabriolet and I don't want to get a rollbar to do track events. I see the Legacy as an excellent road-course car, as well as one that will be good for playing at the dragstrip. My SHO has serious brake and suspension upgrades, but the Legacy felt better right out of the box. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcchicken Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 K.....I'm still torn. This was touched on earlier in the thread but I'd like to know more. Can someone highlight the differences in the AWD systems between the manual and auto or at least point me in a direction where I can find the info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 One good place to start would be the Subaru website. In a nutshell: 5MT AWD = viscous coupling - purely mechanical - reactive - 50/50 split 5EAT AWD = planetary gears and electronic clutch pack - power split can be controlled electronically - proactive - 45/55 split Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailgt Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Would be nice to see a reliable competitive test of the two systems, can't believe C&D, R&T and al haven't done a full test of this great car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Any word on if any if they will be in any of the Sept '04 auto mags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compressed Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 [quote name='vailgt']But how about the feel of the two awd systems? Does the auto's awd feel better? Has anyone driven either off-road or in really bad road conditions? I have read tha if you are coming down a pass and let off of the gas the auto will downshift a gear which is nice to have. i drive colo mtn passes all winter and have always used a manual due to its ability to control spped better. i presently drive a gsr vtec which has amazing throttle control, which subaru also claims for the new gt models.[/quote] VailGT the 5EAT will hold a gear when in manual mode, either for descending, ascending a hill or on flat ground when you know you want to pass. It is a surpisingly well done transmission. I drove a 5EAT GT wagon last night and was very thoroughly surpised with how fun and controllable it was in the manual setting. I have always driven manual cars and would probably purchase a manual car if I were to buy a Legacy, but if I had a significant reason to warrant an automatic (traffic, other driver, etc) I feel I would be really happy with the auto and wouldn't feel as if I was "settling'. I drive the mountains in CO all the time too, and yes the auto GT would be kick ass in the snow, especially with a good set of snow tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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