Will These Speakers Fit/Connect/Work?

[stevenva]

Why? The OEM tweeters already have passive crossovers. (is's called a non polarized capacitor) Your suggestion of running amps with a high pass filter channel for the tweeters a low pass filter channel for the 6 1/2s is a waste because your 4 channel amp will then only work the front speakers. Bi-amplified systems are far from being mainstream because their added cost isn't worth it. BTW Bandpass is only for a midrange.

[monkeyposeur]

Hey, guess what? My leggy was pre wired for tweeters. I snapped a pic for posterity. I also found a punched out hole in the center of the door under the door card and the clear plastic door protector was gone.

 

The tweeters sound really good for being stock! I'm pretty psyched! It sounds so much better. Now I have to get raw drivers for the front. My HU is fine for now. It says on the face cover 45Wx4, so I am assuming that means it has four channels.

 

fiberglass, what raw drivers would you recommend? How about a woofer? I would even think about upgrading the tweeters, but I think I'll stick with the stock ones for now. What kind of deal can you get us?

[FiberglassCustoms]

Why? The OEM tweeters already have passive crossovers. (is's called a non polarized capacitor) Your suggestion of running amps with a high pass filter channel for the tweeters a low pass filter channel for the 6 1/2s is a waste because your 4 channel amp will then only work the front speakers. Bi-amplified systems are far from being mainstream because their added cost isn't worth it. BTW Bandpass is only for a midrange.

 

Why? Why would you put a set of Coaxial's in there if you are already running a set of Tweeters up in the Sails. That doesn't make sense, two sets up Tweets up front-waste. I can understand if you are running an additional set of Tweeters up front for "Imaging," but this isn't the case. I would rather throw a set of Mids down there-just figure out what Your OEM Tweeters play down to & cross your Mids accordingly.

 

Yeah, I know how "Band-Pass" operates. Ah, I understand now the Tweeters have a Filter.

 

As noted above, I would find a set of Raw Drivers & cross them accordingly-Figure out what your Tweets play down to VS throwing a set of Coaxial's down there

[FiberglassCustoms]

Hey, guess what? My leggy was pre wired for tweeters. I snapped a pic for posterity. I also found a punched out hole in the center of the door under the door card and the clear plastic door protector was gone.

 

The tweeters sound really good for being stock! I'm pretty psyched! It sounds so much better. Now I have to get raw drivers for the front. My HU is fine for now. It says on the face cover 45Wx4, so I am assuming that means it has four channels.

 

fiberglass, what raw drivers would you recommend? How about a woofer? I would even think about upgrading the tweeters, but I think I'll stick with the stock ones for now. What kind of deal can you get us?

 

So you are not going to be running an external Amplifier? 45 x 4? I assume that is watts max?- so really, your HU puts out 20 RMS or so per/Ch.

 

Deals-Ha, I told you I can give you resources

[stevenva]

"Why? Why would you put a set of Coaxial's in there if you are already running a set of Tweeters up in the Sails. That doesn't make sense"

I'll answer this again for the second time. I added the tweeters a year after I installed the coaxials

[FiberglassCustoms]

^ Understood,

 

Awaiting for the OP, but I assume he isn't going to be running an external Amplifier.

[stevenva]

A 6 1/2 raw driver will be tough to find. Google it and you won't find much. The few that I saw were paper cones from manufacturers I've never heard of. The 6 1/2 has been a common car speaker size forever. Remember that you should get a car speaker for a cars harsh environment. Freezing in the winter, extreme heat in the summer and the occasional water splash would ruin a common paper cone raw driver. Primarily, the only raw drivers you will find will be part of a component set. Component sets are expensive. Weren't you trying to keep the cost down? So what if you have a tweeter from a coaxial firing into your shin. I wouldn't have put them so far down but that's where Subaru put the hole. I did the best I could with what I had to work with. I found I lacked the highs due to the low placement so when I saw other Subarus with tweeters I had to install a pair. They compliment the coaxials nicely. I'm happy with the sound. Best of all, It's an inexpensive setup that anyone can do.

[FiberglassCustoms]

I take it you are not familiar With partsexpress.com OR madisound.com

 

6.5" Mid Driver? : http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=&srchExt=CAT&perPage=25&sortBy=3&layout=list&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=488&srchMfg=&srchPromo=&srchAttr=

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-7-woofers/

 

-You may have to go to the Manufacturers home page for the Graphs, but they won't be any help until we know what the OEM Tweeters play down to.

 

I am just giving the OP another Option & that option being Raw Drivers. Yes, you can compensate W/ a set of Coaxial's, but I would rather throw Dedicated Drivers down there IF the OP is using OEM Tweeters (still need to know about external amplifier)

 

 

Harsh Environment? It all depends on where the OP lives. In my experience, Paper/Poly cones are the only Cones that have been sensitive to Humidity, Moisture, & Temp.

 

"Car Speakers" in general are not specifically engineered for "Harsh Environment." The Raw Drivers you find & are the same Drivers you may find in a "Component Set"-they are just broken up into singular drivers. I will however, say Hybrid Audio Technologies (HAT) are a different story: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sso8sqY2umc]I61-2 Water Proof Demonstration.m4v - YouTube[/ame]

 

HAT audio sells BOTH Component Sets & Singular (Raw) Drivers.

 

Keepin the Cost down? That is the great thing about Raw Drivers-if you know how to utilize them, you can achieve greater results @ a lower cost. The reason why "Component Sets" are so spendy is because the Name you are paying for-not the Drivers themselves. When you buy "Raw Drivers" -you are typically only paying for the Drivers themselves & not the "Mainstream Name."

 

To the OP: I will see if I can dig up the thread, but do you have any preference on Cone Material? There's Aluminum, Paper/Poly, Fiberglass, etc etc. BTW, the Cone Material Characteristic/Comparison should be found on diyma.com along W/ the Tweeter Composition thread

[monkeyposeur]

Here is a snapshot of the manual. Look like 20 watts per channel for my DEH 240F.

 

I was thinking about running an external amp as per your recommendation. However, before I do that I'll just get some raw drivers. I'll take a look at your links. As far as cone material goes, I don't know what stang would prefer, or what I would for that matter. My current OEM coaxials are paper and looked cheap.

 

Edit: Checked your two links. Thanks. It looks like you can spend as much as you want for the drivers. But just because one product is $150 how do you know it any better than less expensive models. What drivers do you like on each of the links. Thanks for all your help with this. I didn't know anything about sound systems until this thread started.

[Stang70Fastback]

Ok, so I'm reading everything that you guys are saying, and considering my budget of "as little as possible because I am literally broke, but because I'm me it will still end up being several hundred bucks" this is what I've come up with to suit my needs. Tell me what I am missing/not understanding.

 

Main speakers: The 610c series sounds like a decent choice from what you guys are saying. Someone had said they fit just fine, while someone else said I would need standoffs to fit them properly. Looking for input on that, as well as whether I should get the regular size baffles on Amazon or the lower profile ones (the regular ones seem almost too deep for the door...)

 

Tweeters: You guys are saying the OEM tweeters are good quality, so I suppose I could leave them, but I would be tempted to put those that came with the 610c setup anyway. I'm looking for input as to whether they have a standard mounting setup, or whether replacing those would require some sort of coming up with a way to seat them. I'll also consider replacing the metal mesh with some non-sound blocking felt mesh of some sort if you think it makes that big of a difference.

 

Sub/Amp: I really, TRULY, do not want a subwoofer in any other location that under the driver's seat. Aside from the fact that it eliminates having to mess around with excess wiring, there is no good place for one where it wouldn't get in the way of things, even if placed to the side somewhere. That said, I think I'll go with that Kenwood KSC-SW10, which seems to have good reviews from others and will hopefully fit under the seat (will have to take measurements first.)

 

Head Unit: I might as well replace the head unit while I'm at it, and I really like the Pioneer FH-P8000BT, so that's what I'll likely get. It's 4 x 50W, which I would think would be adequate for my means.

 

Does that all make sense then?

 

EDIT: Just saw the posts about raw drivers. I guess it's back to the drawing board. But the only amp I plan on running ATM is the sub/amp thing and whatever I get out of the head unit.

[FiberglassCustoms]

Here is a snapshot of the manual. Look like 20 watts per channel for my DEH 240F.

 

I was thinking about running an external amp as per your recommendation. However, before I do that I'll just get some raw drivers. I'll take a look at your links. As far as cone material goes, I don't know what stang would prefer, or what I would for that matter. My current OEM coaxials are paper and looked cheap.

 

Edit: Checked your two links. Thanks. It looks like you can spend as much as you want for the drivers. But just because one product is $150 how do you know it any better than less expensive models. What drivers do you like on each of the links. Thanks for all your help with this. I didn't know anything about sound systems until this thread started.

 

MONKEY:

 

Watch out, each Driver is specifically designed for a specific amount of wattage. Don't look past Paper, just because your OEM Coaxial's were paper-it doesn't mean they are Cheap. Paper Cones tend to have the most "Robust Natural" Presence & like Poly they are easy to Cross. I prefer Paper Cones as I am an SQ guy.

 

Each Model (Raw Driver) is specifically Designed for a specific Application Under specific Circumstances. Just because Driver A is more Expensive than Driver B does NOT necessarily mean they are "better." As noted before, what matters is how you are going to be applying your Drivers.

 

As noted earlier, Raw Drivers are just another Option but as noted before-If you already using your OEM Tweeters in your sails, why would you NEED tweeters down in your Mids? I asked you if you were going to Run An Amplifier as Some Amplifiers have Active Filters built in. However, you are not going to be running an external amplifier so you WILL need some type of Filter. In this case, coaxial's MAY be the way to go.

[FiberglassCustoms]

Ok, so I'm reading everything that you guys are saying, and considering my budget of "as little as possible because I am literally broke, but because I'm me it will still end up being several hundred bucks" this is what I've come up with to suit my needs. Tell me what I am missing/not understanding.

 

Main speakers: The 610c series sounds like a decent choice from what you guys are saying. Someone had said they fit just fine, while someone else said I would need standoffs to fit them properly. Looking for input on that, as well as whether I should get the regular size baffles on Amazon or the lower profile ones (the regular ones seem almost too deep for the door...)

 

Tweeters: You guys are saying the OEM tweeters are good quality, so I suppose I could leave them, but I would be tempted to put those that came with the 610c setup anyway. I'm looking for input as to whether they have a standard mounting setup, or whether replacing those would require some sort of coming up with a way to seat them. I'll also consider replacing the metal mesh with some non-sound blocking felt mesh of some sort if you think it makes that big of a difference.

 

Sub/Amp: I really, TRULY, do not want a subwoofer in any other location that under the driver's seat. Aside from the fact that it eliminates having to mess around with excess wiring, there is no good place for one where it wouldn't get in the way of things, even if placed to the side somewhere. That said, I think I'll go with that Kenwood KSC-SW10, which seems to have good reviews from others and will hopefully fit under the seat (will have to take measurements first.)

 

Head Unit: I might as well replace the head unit while I'm at it, and I really like the Pioneer FH-P8000BT, so that's what I'll likely get. It's 4 x 50W, which I would think would be adequate for my means.

 

Does that all make sense then?

 

EDIT: Just saw the posts about raw drivers. I guess it's back to the drawing board. But the only amp I plan on running ATM is the sub/amp thing and whatever I get out of the head unit.

 

I am not familiar W/ your Vehicle So I do not know if you will need Spacers (stand-Offs) Find someone W/ the same vehicle you have that has replaced that front speakers & ask.

 

OEM Tweeters: In my opinion, Head W/ a Component Set. I can help you out W/ this if you choose to do so. Monkey is using OEM Tweeters-He is now looking for a set of Mids. The easiest route would be to get a set of Coaxial's and "settle." However, If he wanted to do it "right," he should look for a set of Raw Drivers & cross accordingly. Unfortunately, I could spend hours finding the right Drivers for his application because there is so much that goes into it. I think it'd just be more practical to head W/ a set of Components VS OEM Tweeters and a set of Mids. I am very confident that the Tweeters supplied in any aftermarket component set will be an improvement over your OEM.

 

There are PLENTY of "best bang for your buck" component sets: A few include: Phoenix Gold RSD's, PPI 356cs, & just recently the Massive Audio CKV6 (I think that is the model #) Those Massives are hot right now & if you check out Diyma.com you can find them for around $125-150 or so. If I were you guys, I would head over to Diyma.com and create an account & either search the classifields or Post a WTB. There are PLENTY of Audiophilles on that website willing to help you out & point you in the right direction.

 

I don't mean to complicate things, but I assume your knowledge W/ Audio is growing:) & I am just laying out options.

[lulzcow]

The Alpine SPS 610 does require spacers unless you don't want to roll your windows down past 75%. The 610C I'm not sure of

[FiberglassCustoms]

^ Ha put a spacer in regardless. Who Wouldn't want to be able to roll their windows down all the way?

[monkeyposeur]

I found this in my local classifieds this morning. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&ad=18453482&cat=20&lpid=6&search=Alpine

 

I might have to make an offer. $150 for a used Alpine cda 7695, component speakers, coaxials, an amp, and a sub. That seems like a good deal.

 

edit: the guy just changed the price to $175 obo.

[subikid90]

The Alpine SPS 610 does require spacers unless you don't want to roll your windows down past 75%. The 610C I'm not sure of

 

This is not true, the reason the windows wont roll down is because you have the speaker rotated the wrong way. That back cover only goes one way, I learned the hard way when I did mine.

[stevenva]

The Alpine SPS 610 does require spacers unless you don't want to roll your windows down past 75%. The 610C I'm not sure of

My sedan did not require spacers for the front doors. Perhaps you're referring to a wagons rear door speakers

[lulzcow]

My sedan did not require spacers for the front doors. Perhaps you're referring to a wagons rear door speakers

Wagon rears definitely and I believe the fronts too. Orientation didnt matter, the window would impact the magnet. No difference in depth regardless of orientation

[Stang70Fastback]

Are the wagon front doors different than the sedan front doors?? I wouldn't have thought so...

[stevenva]

Are the wagon front doors different than the sedan front doors?? I wouldn't have thought so...

I'm not answering that

[Kennyfvholla]

They are the same. I know this because I was planning on swapping some dent-less wagon doors onto my car a while back and had to make sure they were exactly the same.

[Stang70Fastback]

Hey guys. I once again want to extend my thanks for all the useful advice in this thread. In the end, I've decided to just go with the 610c speakers.

 

They're in my Amazon cart now, but I've got one question: The speaker baffles in my car are shot (torn and ripped for some reason) so I was ordering a new set too, but there are two styles, deep and shallow. Offhand the deep one looks incredibly deep for our doors, but I can't seem to find any actual numbers on them. Offhand I think the slim ones are the ones I want... can someone confirm this?

 

Slim: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039YWT80/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER]Amazon.com: DEI 050331 Boom Mat 6.5" Round Slim Speaker Baffle - Pack of 2: Automotive[/ame]

 

Deep: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/050330-Boom-Round-Speaker-Baffle/dp/B0039Z3SRA/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_b]Amazon.com: DEI 050330 Boom Mat 6.5" Round Speaker Baffle - Pack of 2: Automotive[/ame]

[stevenva]

The baffle isn't as important as you think it is. The factory baffles primary purpose is to keep water from dripping down onto the speaker. I have Alpines too. I've had them for 2 1/2 years baffle free. If you did get them I would get the larger of the 2 and cut the rear off, leaving the baffle looking like an awning to prevent water from dripping down onto it. If you keep your speaker completely baffled you will lose bass response. The cars door is meant to be used as an enclosure.

[Stang70Fastback]

From what I've read, I can solve the mid-range muffling by cutting out the bottoms of the baffles. That way I get the protection from water without enclosing the speakers entirely. I suppose I'll do that, because I don't like the idea of water dripping on them - even if they can handle it.

[Stang70Fastback]

Well, I figured I might as well follow through with an update. I ended up going with the following:

 

Pioneer FH-P8000BT (Head Unit)

Kenwood KSC-SW10 (Subwoofer)

Alpine SPS-610C (Speakers)

 

I discovered a few things during the install. The first was that one of the reasons that the sound is so nice in this car is that the front speakers did not appear to be stock! They were a set of co-axial speakers (so I had four tweeters total in the front, lol.)

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7185/6891826175_bb67a86f22.jpghttp://farm8.staticflickr.com/7204/6891833277_0c0a041ba8.jpg

 

In addition, the speaker baffles in the front had been destroyed and torn to shreds by the window moving up and down.

 

The installation wasn't to terribly difficult. Both the front and rear tweeter locations did not have a specific way of mounting them, but I discovered that wrapping them with electrical tape a few times firmly secured them to their mounts (no tape in front, obviously.) The rear speakers also fit without issue. Simply drilled 4 new holes in the door and bolted them straight in (the window doesn't drop down enough to get in the way no matter how deep the speakers are.)

 

The front speakers were more complicated. I ended up hacking the rings that you get to mount them different ways up into 8 pieces for each speaker, stacking two pieces behind each of the 4 mounts to raise the speaker enough to avoid the window. The window still scraped the edge of the baffle, and threatened to tear it up again, but I was able to bend a metal tab back on the window support that was scraping so they open and close cleanly.

 

Conclusion: HOLY SHIT. What a massive difference. The tweeters are so much more incredibly powerful and cleaner, and the same goes for the rest of the speakers. I did this upgrade in stages so that I could see what effect each component had.

 

The head unit seemed to let me get a bit louder with the speakers.

 

The new subwoofer is MORE than powerful enough for this car. If you turn it WAY up it gets muddy, but for "intelligent" listening levels (read: not trunk rattling) it is perfectly adequate, and the wired remote is useful for fine tuning it.

 

The speakers, though, made all the difference. Definitely money well spent. I probably wasted a good quarter tank of gas yesterday sitting in, or driving around in my car while simply scrolling through my playlist and listening to the first few seconds of each song, lol.

 

I love being an audiophile. People just don't understand how awesome good quality sound systems are!