severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 so i replaced the timing belt, cam pos sensor, plugs wires, and when i try to start the car there is no spark and it just turns over, nothing but turning. now ive read that it could be the main relay or fuse im not exactly sure. because most are labeled SBF 1-7 ect i dont know which fuse it could be. but it sounds like a simple issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 ok i think i have spark now but its very slow and very weak and its still not starting. im not sure if its getting gas. i dont really know how to tell, the fuel pump is turning on however i am hearing it through the filler. but its still just cranking over with no effort to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted November 30, 2011 I Donated Share Posted November 30, 2011 Double check your timing -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If you have someone else crank it over, you can put a screw driver on an injector then put your ear on the screw driver to listen for the clicking noise it makes when opening. Is the tach still not moving when cranking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 no the tach doesnt move. i double checked the timing 4times. it matched the book perfectly. the double notches were together on both sides, the single notch was strait up on both and the bottoms were strain outward while the crankshaft dot was up and arrow was 45 Deg right and the thing that went into the crank for the groove in the pully went strait down. sound right? i also checked the crank sensor and cam sensor and the cams new, the crank got cleaned, there both plugged in good. now replacing the timing belt i touched nothing other than the belts the pully the covers and the radiator, why would this happen? also dont know if this matter but when i did the timing i set the crank first, the pass side pullys were free and moved into place with no problem but did get tough if i moved them too much while the driverside i needed a ratchet and they were hard to turn into place and snapped back if touched. normal right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted November 30, 2011 I Donated Share Posted November 30, 2011 Crankshaft or camshaft sensor got unplugged or damaged -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Crankshaft or camshaft sensor got unplugged or damaged how can i tell if there damaged? they look fine the camshaft sensor is new and the crank i cleaned. i made sure they were plugged in... could the part that plugs into the sensor be bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 well i took off both sensors again and cleaned them both again. now back to no sparks from the coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 ive cleaned them 3 times and made sure there plugged in and still no spark!! it must be something else... im abt to give up >.< i dont know if the coil is getting power, i dont have a test light.. but it could be possible the coil is bad right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigos1996 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 did you put the keyway back on, Cam sensor is used for ignition and fuel injection timing Crank sensor is used for proper dwell and timing advance did you get the right part. is the crank pully (harmonic balancer ) turning when you crank the engine. go to your local part store and try to get a dvom (Digital Volt Ohm Milliammeter) they work better than test lights . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 did you put the keyway back on, Cam sensor is used for ignition and fuel injection timing Crank sensor is used for proper dwell and timing advance did you get the right part. is the crank pully (harmonic balancer ) turning when you crank the engine. go to your local part store and try to get a dvom (Digital Volt Ohm Milliammeter) they work better than test lights . yes the keyway is on. nvr took it off, there must be something wrong with the cam sensor, the new coil i ordered today came in and its on and nothing changed. i guess this car hates me lol the cam sensor is new... and i didnt touch it while i replaced the belt. and yes the crank pully is turning. and i got the part from adv auto. the car ran when i put the cam sensor on a week ago. now since i changed just the belt, it doesnt work? my buddy who is better with electrical work will be coming over tonight to check it all, hes alot better with electrical work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 ok i replaced the Cam sensor again and still nothing... this car really does hate me lol now im not great with electrical work and since my buddy is out of town... when i get a DOVM what do i do and what am i looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I would check/replace the crank sensor as well. Hmm... give me just a few minutes and I'll see if there's a way to test crank sensor. Happen to have a multimeter handy? Edit: I don't know the exact test procedure but I just hooked up a multimeter, set it to 20k Ohm (~2k or more should work, mine sat right at 1.97k ohm without any metal near it), and passed a piece of metal by the sensor. It will have a real quick change is resistance easily noticeable on the meter. If you have one you might be able to test its function by trying that real quick. If there's no change or you aren't seeing around 2k ohms that should mean the sensor is bad. I'll look through the FSM and see if I can find an actual test procedure but looking through the manuals I have, I couldn't find one. Edit 2: Couldn't find anything in the FSM as far as test procedure for the position sensors but I did find a site online stating that if you test resistance between the two pins if they are between 1k and 4k ohms they are generally ok. I know mine works and it was sitting at 1.97k so they must be at least close to right. Give that a test if you can and see what happens. They did also state in the article that occasionally you can unplug the position sensors, plug them back in, and the engine will fire up. If that works as well, definitely get the crank position sensor replaced too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 i will get a DOVM tomorrow along with a new crank sensor, but do they really just fail on the spot? now i was poking around and i came upon someone who said this is what your car will sound like with no compression(bad timing). [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWnMxJp97-o]the sound of no compression - YouTube[/ame] this is exactly how my car sounds. now i will recheck my timing if i have to....again. i checked it atleast 4times and my friend also did check it and it was ******* perfect with the book. yet this is exactly how my car sounds. could it also be because im not getting a spark? and just to rule out the timing mark i will take pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 For it to sound like that it would have to be leaking through the valves quite a bit. It could be possible for yours to sound like that if the timing is off enough. Hopefully, if that is the case, no valves were damaged. When I got my Legacy, every intake valve was bent but it didn't quite sound as free spinning as in that video. To get it to sound like that either the valves would have to be leaking a lot or the spark plugs would have to be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 well i swear to god the timing was perfect. i will take a vid of it tomorrow and will take off the timing cover and take pics of the timing. now how far off does the timing need to be to not run? because im not too sure but i think the car was off 2 or 3 teeth before i changed it, and it still ran. but no spark wouldn't cause it to run like the car in the vid would it? i do kindof get a single(one) backfire type sound as so as i start to crank it. but it sounds more like just a puff lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted December 1, 2011 I Donated Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yeah I think your timing is off -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 If I remember correctly, 3 teeth is the maximum it can be off before the pistons hit the valves. If both cams happened to be 3 teeth off I'm sure it would have minimal compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 but with no spark could my car sound like that? or somewhat close, im not sure if its that loose souning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Basically no. The engine in that video was spinning completely free, no compression at all. Say it was a good engine and you put the plugs in, it won't spin nearly as free as there should be ~180 psi of compression or so. Even if no fuel was injecting and there was no spark it would clearly make a different noise, it would sound more strained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 ok i rechecked my timing and did it again. it is yet again perfect even more perfect because i counted the teeth, cranked it, counted teeth again and it was perfect. im gonna get a comp tester and test the compression. now one more question. will the car run with just the belt on without the radiator and everything else so i can watch it and maybe if there's an issue? also replaced crank sensor still same. now when i was turning the crank to get the right position it was turning oh so freely(but the belt wasn't on) im not sure if that's good or not... but the cams were hard to turn and for the spark. it did spark, but very weak and not consistent. and the RPM gauge still not moving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 heres a vid of the me showing the timing being perfect, and how the cranking sounds. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPvkMx0BYjQ]VID_20111201_100333.3gp - YouTube[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushey45 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 So I don't see a spark tester...are you expecting to see a spark jumping out of the coil? Because with no ground you won't. Put a spark tester on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedevil Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 So I don't see a spark tester...are you expecting to see a spark jumping out of the coil? Because with no ground you won't. Put a spark tester on it no it used to ground right on the intake manifold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigos1996 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Installation http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P4R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94796433 1.SPROCKET</B> http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94796435 1)Install right-hand belt cover No.2.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94707762 2)Install left-hand belt cover No.2.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94669925 3)Install tensioner bracket.4)Install crankshaft sprocket.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94707763 5)Install right-hand exhaust camshaft sprocket. To lock camshaft, use ST.6)Install right-hand intake camshaft sprocket using ST.7)Install left-hand exhaust camshaft sprocket using ST.8)Install left-hand intake camshaft sprocket using ST. ST 499207300 CAMSHAFT SPROCKET WRENCHhttp://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94669927 2.BELT TENSIONER AND IDLER</B> http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P1R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94796437 http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P1R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94707764 1)Installation of belt tensioner adjuster(1)Insert stopper pin 1.5 mm (0.059 in) dia. into place while pushing tension adjuster rod into body using a press.CAUTION: Do not allow press pressure to exceed 9,807 N (1,000 kg, 2,205 lb).Do not release press pressure until stopper pin is completely inserted.Push tension adjuster rod vertically.Press-in the push rod gradually, taking three minutes or more.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94707765 (2)Temporarily tighten bolts while tension adjuster is pushed all the way to the right.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94707766 2)Install belt tensioner.3)Install belt idler.4)Install belt idler No.2.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94707767 3.Timing Belt</B> 1)Crankshaft and camshaft sprocket alignmentCrankshaft Sprockethttp://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94796874 (1)Align mark on crankshaft sprocket with mark on the oil pump cover at cylinder block.RH Exhaust Camshafthttp://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94796876 (2)Align single line mark on right-hand exhaust camshaft sprocket with notch on belt cover.RH Intake Camshafthttp://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94670792 (3)Align single line mark on right-hand intake camshaft sprocket with notch on belt cover. (Make sure double lines on intake camshaft and exhaust camshaft sprockets are aligned.)LH Exhaust Camshafthttp://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94670794 (4)Align single line mark on left-hand exhaust camshaft sprocket with notch on belt cover by turning sprocket counter-clockwise (as viewed from front of engine).LH Intake Camshafthttp://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94657249 (5)Align single line mark on left-hand intake camshaft sprocket with notch on belt cover by turning sprocket clockwise (as viewed from front of engine). Insure double lines on intake and exhaust camshaft sprockets are aligned.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94670799 (6)Ensure camshaft and crankshaft sprockets are positioned as shown.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94796880 CAUTION: Intake and exhaust camshafts for this DOHC engine can be independently rotated with timing belts removed. As can be seen from the figure, if intake and exhaust valves are lifted simultaneously, their heads will interfere with each other, resulting in bent valves.http://legacygt.com/forums/mhtml:%7B9DD5C110-3571-4370-B6DD-72233AC433F8%7Dmid://00000001/!x-usc:http://library.alldatapro.com/alldata/LIB~C40593~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/41746574/56623499/56624059/110824586/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872060/34849574/110983842/105659162/94670801 When timing belts are not installed, four camshafts are held at the "zero-lift" position, where all cams on camshafts do not push intake and exhaust valves down. (Under this condition, all valves remain unlifted.)When camshafts are rotated to install timing belts, #2 intake and #4 exhaust cam of left-hand camshafts are held to push their corresponding valves down. (Under this condition, these valves are held lifted.) Right-side camshafts are held so that their cams do not push valves down.Left-hand camshafts must be rotated from the "zero- lift" position to the position where timing belt is to be installed at as small an angle as possible, in order to prevent mutual interference of intake and exhaust valve heads.Do not allow camshafts to rotate in the direction shown in the upper of figure as this causes both intake and exhaust valves to lift simultaneously, resulting in interference with their heads. 2)Installation of timing belt Align alignment mark on timing belt with marks on sprockets in the numerical order shown in figure. While aligning marks, position timing belt properly. CAUTION: Ensure belt's rotating direction is correct. 3)Install belt idler.CAUTION: Make sure that the marks on timing belt and sprockets are aligned. 4)Loosen tension adjuster attaching bolts and move adjuster all the way to the left. Tighten the bolts. 5)After ensuring that the marks on timing belt and sprockets are aligned, remove stopper pin from tension adjuster. 4.CRANKSHAFT PULLEY AND BELT COVER</B> 1)Install front belt cover. 2)Install right-hand belt cover. 3)Install left-hand belt cover.4)Install crankshaft pulley. 5)Install pulley bolt by using ST. ST 499977000 CRANKSHAFT PULLEY WRENCH6)Install V-belt.CAUTION: After installing V-belt, check and adjust V-belt tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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