wheelsbreakloose Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 What is your idle RPM ? After I replaced the o-rings at the intake to TGV's my idle seemed low. My Tuner had his lap top adjust the idle up to 900rpm while the car was on the dyno. Glad we can be some help. I'm still learning too as well as helping out where I can. The Idle is around 735 to 750 RPMS, which is what I thought it was supposed to be at. isn't 900 a little high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 So, this morning I started the car up, and it was idling pretty rough. But then once the car reached normal temperature, it smoothed most of the way out. There must still be something not right with her. Its not like it was freezing outside or anything.. The temperature was right around 44 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Its your intake manifold gaskets. My 08 would idle rough until warmed up. It even was as bad as throwing codes and misfires. I have a writeup on how to do this in the walkthrough maintenance thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Its your intake manifold gaskets. My 08 would idle rough until warmed up. It even was as bad as throwing codes and misfires. I have a writeup on how to do this in the walkthrough maintenance thread. Yea, I'm thinking about just replacing them after what everyone has been saying about them. Then I can at least rule those out. They have 80,000 miles and 7 years on them anyway, and it seems that people have been having trouble with them. Plus they shouldn't be to costly. Any recommendations on what brand I should go with? Or should I just use OEM? Does anyone know if the OEM gaskets and O-rings have been updated in anyway? I'll probably just do the Intake Manifold gaskets and the TGV Riser 0-rings at the same time. I still find it strange that I'm not getting a CEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The oem orings were updated in 2009. They are taller and have more contact surface area. They are supplied at most dealers, check the thread for part numbers. I didnt get a cel until a few months after it started happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Yea, I'm thinking about just replacing them after what everyone has been saying about them. Then I can at least rule those out. They have 80,000 miles and 7 years on them anyway, and it seems that people have been having trouble with them. Plus they shouldn't be to costly. Any recommendations on what brand I should go with? Or should I just use OEM? Does anyone know if the OEM gaskets and O-rings have been updated in anyway? I'll probably just do the Intake Manifold gaskets and the TGV Riser 0-rings at the same time. I still find it strange that I'm not getting a CEL. These o-rings are all I changed. We were able to unbolt the small bolts and a few other clamps and brackets along the front of the intake and get each side up enough the use a o-ring pick to remove them. A dental pick would work too. I think I said earlier when you see old/new side by side you'll understand the problem Any dealer should have the o-rings, I think I paid $20.00 for the 4 of them. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 These o-rings are all I changed. We were able to unbolt the small bolts and a few other clamps and brackets along the front of the intake and get each side up enough the use a o-ring pick to remove them. A dental pick would work too. I think I said earlier when you see old/new side by side you'll understand the problem Any dealer should have the o-rings, I think I paid $20.00 for the 4 of them. Yea. I'm gonna get those ordered tomorrow for sure!! Even though I have no absolute proof that they are leaking. I'm not sure why there is no change in the Idle when I sprayed Starting fluid around them. But then Again, there was no change in the Idle when I sprayed starting fluid around that leaking vacuum hose either.. So, who knows! (shrug) So you don't think it will be necessary to replace the TGV to Head O-rings, along with the Manifold to TGV riser's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Weeelll!... I got the new intake manifold O-rings installed. Pretty straight forward. After pulling my old ones out, I could definitely see the difference. The new ones are much taller. My old ones were all rounded and smooshed looking. But unfortunetly the car still runs the same. SO, i"m back to square one again. (sigh) Least now I know its NOT the intake manifold gaskets now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the ones above or below the tgv valves ? or both ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 the ones above or below the tgv valves ? or both ? just the upper ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 what is the idle speed? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 about 720 to 750.. RPMs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I see you have atuomatic, so the correct idle may be more of a issue then for me. Tuner and I had the same idea. Keep the idle a little higher for better oil pressure. I coast alot with the car, so the engine idles for more time then a automatics would. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 I see you have atuomatic, so the correct idle may be more of a issue then for me. Tuner and I had the same idea. Keep the idle a little higher for better oil pressure. I coast alot with the car, so the engine idles for more time then a automatics would. Yea. Unfortunately its an Auto. For some reason it was really difficult to find a 5 speed..and one that that wasn't completely hammered on to boot. The Idle is where I notice the roughness the most. But, It does seem to have a little tremoring when at about 1,500 RPMS and in park. I also notice it a little bit when the car is under load and I keep the throttle steady at around 2,500 RPMs. It just feels like a slight rapid missfire, but maybe a little more settle then that. Maybe I'm just picking the car apart to much!!. I just want the damn thing to run smooth!! ARGH!@! Also, I went through the motor again with a stethiscope to see if I could hear anything unuassual. and I did notice that on the passenger rear side of the engine next to the turbo, I could hear a sort of intermittent pinging noise. I checked all the other sides of the motor, and everything was nice and smooth sounding. This has me worried. Think i'm going to have to do a compression check, even though the Vacuum readings were well within spec. Is it possible for it to pre-detinate at Idle? and only on one cylinder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have similiar areas of unsmoothness (I'm a 5MT and have been attributing to the dual mass flywheel possibly being unbalanced). I think I know exactly what you heard (I've heard it on my car and my brother's so I'm not worried now). Does it sound like a "TINK-TA-TA-TINK-TA-TA-TINK" like a drum cadence? I think that pinging noise is normal. These cars make all kinds of weird vibrations and noises. FWIW I got a compression test and had 140psi on all cylinders warm. This still leaves the possibly of a burned valve. I bought a leakdown tester, but have yet to go through the process. If you have an air compressor, you can do it yourself (a good kit on amazon is $60 - OTC). Personally, I'd do leakdown test first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Had the car been sitting for any decent period of time before you bought it? I.e., more than a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 I see you have atuomatic, so the correct idle may be more of a issue then for me. Tuner and I had the same idea. Keep the idle a little higher for better oil pressure. I coast alot with the car, so the engine idles for more time then a automatics would. I have similiar areas of unsmoothness (I'm a 5MT and have been attributing to the dual mass flywheel possibly being unbalanced). I think I know exactly what you heard (I've heard it on my car and my brother's so I'm not worried now). Does it sound like a "TINK-TA-TA-TINK-TA-TA-TINK" like a drum cadence? I think that pinging noise is normal. These cars make all kinds of weird vibrations and noises. FWIW I got a compression test and had 140psi on all cylinders warm. This still leaves the possibly of a burned valve. I bought a leakdown tester, but have yet to go through the process. If you have an air compressor, you can do it yourself (a good kit on amazon is $60 - OTC). Personally, I'd do leakdown test first. YEP!! exactly what I hear!!. Almost like some tiny little pebbles bouncing around in there! I'm feeling a little better knowing that Its not just my car. I do have a air compressor. SO, if I find anything wrong with my compression, A leak down test will be my next step.. I hope its not a burnt valve or anything along those lines. I'd be trading this thing in Pronto!!! Oh.. And no, the car hadn't been sitting for very long before we bought it. In fact, the dealer hadn't even stocked it in yet. It was a lease return, and the car originally came from Ohio or some place out there where they use alot of salt on the roads. (hence all the rust and Corrosion on the undercarriage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlBlueGT Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 On our LGT rough idle turned out to be worn out heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 On our LGT rough idle turned out to be worn out heads. Dude!! I hope its not worn out heads!! That would suck!! Guess I'll find out monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemicalWaste Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Make sure your plug wires aren't arching out onto the intake manifold. I just replaced my girlfriends wires after her forester was idling rough at 82k miles and haven't had an issue since. They may not be arching either and may just be bad. Tough to tell, easy to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemicalWaste Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Her car isn't a turbo but still similar layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsbreakloose Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Make sure your plug wires aren't arching out onto the intake manifold. I just replaced my girlfriends wires after her forester was idling rough at 82k miles and haven't had an issue since. They may not be arching either and may just be bad. Tough to tell, easy to fix. Yea, Plug wires would definitely be something to consider at my mileage too.. Except that mine doesn't have wires. All the Turbo models use individule coil packs over each spark plug on each cylinder. I've tossed around the possibility of it being just a bad coil pack, but which one?. I really wish the car would throw off some sort of clue. for instance, maybe a CEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 you dont have data logging ability? i would check each cylinder roughness monitors. but what you could do is when its running rough pull the injector wire to each cylinder and see if you can figure out witch cylinder is acting up Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 but what you could do is when its running rough pull the injector wire to each cylinder and see if you can figure out witch cylinder is acting up Seems to be a good idea, at least it isn't the ignition coil wire which would have the potential for a shocking experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Just noticed a kind of no-no. Seafoam on our cars isn't always the best idea. In your case, it sounds to me like a lifter may be sticking just ever so slightly. It would explain almost all of your symptoms, and probably wouldn't be severe enough to throw a CEL. The odd thing is, that would usually be caused by a lack of oil flow to the lifter for an extended amount of time. You sir have me confused, and a little bit curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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