s car go Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Take initial impressions with a grain of salt and listen to the people who have ran their coilovers for a year or two. My MR coilovers weren't bad at all for the first 6 months but declined in ride quality pretty quickly. Also, the fact that you see such polarized reviews for some of these brands should tell you about their quality control as consistency doesn't seem to be a strong point. Whereas I've yet to hear bad things about RCE or Enduratech, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 RCE is not even on the same planet as far as quality as a BC. Far superior. But... with most coil overs, you get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJW Performance Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 you can get swifts for isc coilovers also. Im running swifts in the rear but ordered the wro ng length for the front. Ajw can get parts for iscs also. Not saying bc is crap but are they much better if at all? No. For the Legacy platform specifically, there is no comparison in ride quality with an ISC street comfort Vs. BC Br. ISC has been around for 8+ years in Australia and Asia, 2+ years in USA. I have installed these for people and set them up to almost feel stock when hitting potholes and bumps, but still have way less body roll since they sit lower behave different than a strut; since they are in fact a true coilover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robitrice Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 i got MR coilovers bought them used with about years worth of california driving on them. I cant complain, they ride better than i thought. people made it seem like your back was gonna blow out, it will if you are not cognicant of the bumps and what not in the road. I am also looking into coilover covers (used in offroad racing/rally) to protect them from the winters weather and salts. A waterproof sleeve that covers the entire setup. http://www.gearheadsonline.ca/shop/product.php?productid=16238&cat=60&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I have had MR coilovers on my Outback for about 3 years now. I am only semi happy with them. I have not had any major failures so far, but I have had to replace the right front cartridge twice....and the third one is bleeding some red goop. The ride for the street is pretty freakin firm, even on full soft. I can deal with it tho. I think these coilovers shine on smooth roads / tracks. I have been very happy how they have handled the auto-x'ing and tracking that I have done. A perfect suspension (for me) would be sock sized LGT struts, but upgraded and adjustable. Something like Tokico D-specs or KYB AGX's. Then they would be pared with LGT stock sized springs (not lowering, because on the OB stock size IS lowered quite a bit) but upgraded rates. Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 BC is not a LGT specific damper. They make 1 damper for all models they sell. They just change springs. They are over dampened no matter what, imho. We have seen a few of the rear bodies go out. Not violently like the Megans did. But they lose the seal and bleed out. Even when properly set up. You dont get them re-built, they just send you another body to install. There are far better strut and spring combos. What a set of BC's gives you is inexpensive height adjustment. This is as close to the truth as you are ever going to get. I've never owned the ISC's, maybe they're marginally better. Bottom line is that NO coilover short of ~$1500-1800 minimum is going to have vehicle specific dampening. All the ~$1000 coils are one-size-fits-all mix and match style. For $1000 you can't afford real engineering and proper valving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 For the Legacy platform specifically, there is no comparison in ride quality with an ISC street comfort Vs. BC Br. I'd be very surprised if they're not the exact same thing with a different color scheme. It's funny how every couple of months a new coilover comes out with different colors and is "better" than the last one. Next year everyone's going to be saying the XYZ coilovers are way better than BC and ISC. Guess what: it's all the same junk. THE coilover to get for these cars is the RCE T1. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 RCE Tarmac is my favorite for most LGT's. My SpecB surpassed the abilities of the T1's long ago. But Myles was able to set me up with a custom AST/Swift set up I am very pleased with. No complaints about RCE quality from me. If I could actually convince some customers to spend the money, I would sell them as a retailer. But, it is an uphill battle many times, and I have yet to win. I sell KW too, but have never actually sold a set (to an LGT owner). It appears that the majority of LGT owners are more concerned about price point than pure quality when it comes to coil overs. Tein now has more affordable models too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'd be very surprised if they're not the exact same thing with a different color scheme. It's funny how every couple of months a new coilover comes out with different colors and is "better" than the last one. Next year everyone's going to be saying the XYZ coilovers are way better than BC and ISC. Guess what: it's all the same junk. THE coilover to get for these cars is the RCE T1. Period. It's all about the valving. A cheap damper can have good valving. I haven't seen anyone take apart a BC or ISC or any other cheap coilover, but chances are they can be tuned for cheap.. I'm holding out some hope for the street comfort ISC since they seem to be changing damper specifically for street driving. Waiting for a quality review, or something to take me for a ride in one.. Spending 2000+ on just coilovers for this car seems like a total waste, unless it's going to get tracked a lot. Unfortunately these cheap coilover seem like a better option than ******* with stock struts/koni/bilstein/whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 A set of T1's can be had for around $1600. I have seen used KW V2's for $800 in the classifieds. Only costs $500 to have them rebuilt by KW. Konis and a good set of springs will destroy BC's. So will Tokicos. Bilsteins probably too. Better valving, better ride. Honestly the only thing you get with low end coils is adjustable ride height. Also, no one is going to open up a BC and try to make it better. Not even BC does that. If the manufacturer sells no replacement parts... chances are a set of shims, seals, etc from another brand wont fit. Nothing from my Ohlins fits in my Axxis or my PEP's. None of my shocks have interchangeable parts between brands. They dont even use the same technology for valving. Oh and my all three of those sets cost over $3k for the front shocks alone. Want a real set of coils?? I called my contacts at Ohlins (last suspension sponsor when I still raced pro). I got a price for a full set up for my LGT. Real race coils, like NASCAR quality. Sitting down??? $33,000 delivered. My price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's all about the valving. A cheap damper can have good valving. no, actually, it can't. Good valving means precise manufacturing tolerances, quality control, and actual development of the damping curves for a specific platform. A damper that costs $30 to make has none of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Want a real set of coils?? I $33,000 delivered. My price. yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Yeah, right... I knew it would be a lot, but... needless to say, I choked a bit. Thats when Myles came through for me with the AST set up. Fit my current budget and plans. Maybe someday I will pay more for a set of coils than I did for the entire car. But that car might have only cost me $1000. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 AST's are def great. very happy with my set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Konis and a good set of springs will destroy BC's. So will Tokicos. Bilsteins probably too. Better valving, better ride. Honestly the only thing you get with low end coils is adjustable ride height. Yeah, well I can't find a "good set" of springs. Some manufacturers have discontinued them. The rest are too expensive. By the time I get Konis+pinks installed (only feasable combo I can think of), might as well have bought the Tarmac 1's. No height adjustability, and as far as I've seen it looks like the koni's have fixed compression, the adjustment is rebound only. No idea how much of an improvement koni's are over stock anyway. The question in my mind is can I get better handling and a ride over bad roads hopefully not much worse than stock by getting ISC's? Most of us don't give a crap if they pale in comparison to a 33 thousand dollar set of coilovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 no, actually, it can't. Good valving means precise manufacturing tolerances, quality control, and actual development of the damping curves for a specific platform. A damper that costs $30 to make has none of that. It's just a piece of metal. None of these parts are made by hand, it's one expensive machine, or and even more expensive machine. If you know you're going to make 10,000 of them economies of scale come into play. Regardless. Fortune Auto 500's supposedly have digressive valving and they show shock dyno's. They are in the same range as the 3 brands above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 yeah, you're right. stamp out 10000 shim stacks, pistons, and bleed valves as cheaply as possible and they'll all be exactly the same. Plus the damping curves and shock travel will be suitable for every car ever made. everyone who has ever ran a complete set of these on a dyno finds that all four corners are significantly different from each other. as far as I know, all fortune does is take a big batch and match them up as best as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I can produce a shock dyno with a cocktail napkin. Lol. There is a lot more to shocks than what you describe. Call Wayne at PEP and read your last post. Just be ready for what comes out the other end of the phone. Lol. Konis are infinitely better than stock. Rebound effects compression more than compression adjustment does. Always set your rebound, then your compression. Too little rebound and you pack up. Too much and you "spring" out. Slower rebound equals more compression too. So, it actually makes a lot of sense. Pinks are very overpriced. Way over priced. Swift is a superior quality spring (JDM) at half the price of Pinks. If looking at Pinks, might as well go Epic (Eibach pro-kit). A set of Konis and springs can be had for $1k or less. Oh and no one has sold 10000 sets of dampers for an LGT expect Subaru. The numbers are far lower than you are imagining. Not trying to stir the pot. Just posting info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Pinks are very overpriced. Way over priced. Swift is a superior quality spring (JDM) at half the price of Pinks. If looking at Pinks, might as well go Epic (Eibach pro-kit). A set of Konis and springs can be had for $1k or less. Oh and no one has sold 10000 sets of dampers for an LGT expect Subaru. The numbers are far lower than you are imagining. Not trying to stir the pot. Just posting info. Pinks are the only stiffer springs I found with minimal (0.5") drop. If you know of a 15-25% stiffer spring that doesn't drop the car that I can buy for a reasonable price, I'd like to know. Between the review thread on nasioc all all the other enthusiast cars BC BR sells for, I wouldn't doubt multiple thousands sold over the last few years. Unless the reviews are fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I wouldn't doubt multiple thousands sold over the last few years. Unless the reviews are fake. I said Oh and no one has sold 10000 sets of dampers for an LGT expect Subaru. The numbers are far lower than you are imagining. Every car is different. The valving for a WRX is not the same for an LGT. Model years of WRX should be different also. BC makes 1 body for all cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 these things get good reviews because they're lower and stiffer. The more you learn about suspension and damping, the more you hate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I said Every car is different. The valving for a WRX is not the same for an LGT. Model years of WRX should be different also. BC makes 1 body for all cars. No. Mass. Spring. Damper. As long as these things can be tuned to work properly together, it's fine. There's no voodoo in there. Since we're not about to change the mass of an LGT, if you're saying there's no way to get appropriate spring rates and damping for BC on a LGT, sure - then tell us in what regard. When you pay 33k+ for dampers you're not paying for 33k of parts, you're paying for a small fraction for parts and a huge amount for engineering expertise. Even RCE Tarmac 1's for example - come setup out of the box. If they didn't I bet we'd see _a lot_ of complaints about them as well. There's the price premium. I have yet to see any data that says any of these coils are unworkable when setup 'as well as possible' given the quality of the parts. I've seen a few happy people and their reviews would seem to indicate they know WTF they are doing. For negative reviews I can't say the same - and I have been looking hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Looking at AST's site, I dont see anything for a Legacy just STi. Looking at prices, I see why they are a hard sell compared to the BC solution. http://www.ast-usa.com/ast_5000_shock_absorber_coilover_kit.php So, how do you get them for Legacy? $33k for a custom setup is not in the cards, but for ~3k, I'd expect something that was somewhat tuned for the Legacy? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 talk to ast, or vorshlag, or rce, or tic. The big difference on fitment between the lgt and the 08+ impreza are the rear shock bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Hey Deer Killer, if you are willing to match up a Ground Control set to the struts of your choice (think Tokico D-specs), you can choose almost any spring height and stiffness you want. Just look at this link to all the different springs: http://www.swiftsprings.net/file/metric.pdf Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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