Oil consumption at the race track, Help!

[doccrowley]

Anybody run into an oil leak problem only on track days related to hard cornering/oil sloshing and being sucked back into the intake/inlet system?

 

My car blows/sucks oil back into the inlet and comes out of my manual boost controller only at the track. I run much harder boost and for longer duration on the freeway compared to the track and I'm wondering if it's the hard cornering under high pressure/boost that's is showing leaks. Turbo oil seals are good (thought they were bad).

 

Considering catch can and or Air/Oil separators as my next option.

 

Anybody have any practical solutions or experience?

 

Appreciate the help. I may be sitting on a good vf40 and had a good BNR EvoX 16G if I needed a catch can instead of oil seals???

[ehsnils]

A few items that may help:

 

• Check/replace PCV valve - or try a different. It may be good enough for daily driving but not racing with the tune you have.
  
• Oil separators should be a good thing. It's likely that the engine works harder on the track causing more blow-by at the pistons so the ordinary crankcase ventilation isn't able to keep up. And excess of gasses in crankcase means power loss too.
  
• Try different oil brand. It may be that the anti-foam properties of the oil you use aren't good enough.
  

[doccrowley]

Thank you for the input.

 

I'm finding the oil leak after only 1 lap at the track. Oil comes out of manual boost controller and sprays all ove the intake manifold. I doubt it is oil foaming.

 

I'm starting to think its the hard cornering and splash to the forged pistons and or oil out of the vents on heads and back through vent system. Main pcv line into turbo inlet has been deleted and capped.

 

Trying to decide between catch can that has a return line or air/oil separator.

 

Looking for advice from subie tracksters.

 

Anybody?

[ehsnils]

One more thing that I have heard about is that some STi people actually recommends running the engines with the oil level on the lower half of the dip stick.

 

I'm not sure about which engine model or model year. And I would recommend an oil pressure meter to verify the pressure.

[doccrowley]

Grimmspeed Air/Oil separator coming tomorrow. Going to run both crankcase vents and valve cover vents into it, then return line (clear) to the inlet to see if oil in inlet will stop.

[killerbmotorsport]

We recommend the Crawford A/O seperator. Works well and has a substancial track proven history. I don't know anything about the Grimm piece so I can't speak to that.

 

Change the PCV for sure, but what's happening is as you increase corner loads (at track speeds/loads) the PVC lines in the heads cover with oil. Remember, with boxer engines the outer facing head fills with oil on corners and does not drain back. With blowby, especially significant blowby, the presure pushes the oil out into the lines and into wherever they are going. The wrong thing here to do is go with a catch can. Not only will it fill RAPIDLY, but you also lower the oil level in the pan just as quickly.

 

Is this a built motor or higher mileage? I ask because usually these symptoms are found to be cause by excessive blowby due to wear or other issues. Pushing oil through the PCV doesn't typically just happen from only track conditions.

[doccrowley]

new built motor, 2200 miles on it. It has leaked both times at the track, both during the first lap, warm-up tires type situations. Both times pulled car from track immediately.

 

PCV system had been re-routed on OEM set-up with aftermarket turbo inlet install. Never leaked at the track. OE turbo oil seals developed blow by and TMIC and TB filled with oil. OE turbo was pulled at 86K, zero shaft play, oil everywhere though. Motor was bad at that point with noisy exhaust valves and cylinder scoring. (Likely from when I smashed the oil pan at the track over a barrier in 11/10 and had a new pan, KB pickup and windage tray installed) Nov 2010.

 

New motor, BNR 16G and all supporting fuel mods went in car late June 2011. Oil leaked from boost controller after 1 lap at track in early Aug. Oil supply was reduced to new turbo and zero leaks in system until next track day 9/23/11.

 

Turbo was pulled, found to contaminated, oil seals were bad and turbo was rebuilt to be an hta68 instead.

 

Install was completed yesterday, broken in yesterday and today, to possibly be tuned Tuesday (if I don't decide to wait to source and install a new intake too)!

 

Grimmspeed Air/Oil separator was installed during new turbo install.

 

Hope no more sloshing from heads to fill the turbo inlet tube will occur now. Time will tell!

 

Thanks Killer B for the info and rocking produtcs!

[TurboBrett]

Hey Doc, how did you determine it was your turbo that was using the oil other than inspecting the oil seals after pulling it?

 

I've been using a bit of oil (on the street) with my latest BNR 16g (1/4 to 1/3 down the dipstick per 300miles) but I also have a new PCV and switched from castrol to rotella T 15-40. Debating pulling the turbo, doing a compression and leak-down test...

[doccrowley]

turbo oil seals were not bad. See my post above. Air Oil separator with a catch can is a must for track applications.

 

Also, you'll definitely see oil dissappear if you've just changed oil formulations. It should balance out by the 2nd or 3rd oil change. Don't be switching again though.

[AZP Installs]

I have seen 2 failures of the GS AOS on track. Apparently they suck oil in through the oil cap area and then shoot it. Into the intake... YMMV.

 

Mike

[Th3Franz]

I have seen 2 failures of the GS AOS on track. Apparently they suck oil in through the oil cap area and then shoot it. Into the intake... YMMV.

 

Mike

 

I'll keep an eye out. I have clear hose leading out from the AOS so it'll be obvious.

[doccrowley]

Grimmspeed Air Oil separator is for sale as of next week when it comes off the car. Sucks big time!

[boxkita]

Try the crawford product, recommended by a few "speed" shops. Saw it on a STI a couple weeks running fast times at Barber Motorsport in Alabama. He had re-routed all his tubing and hooked up the crawford with a catch can. He said before that he would lose all his oil on the first lap.

[doccrowley]

Moroso dual catch can set-up being installed next Wednesday!

[AZP Installs]

Moroso dual catch can set-up being installed next Wednesday!

 

I just saw the Moroso dual setup at the PRI show in Orlando last week. VERY nicely done.

 

-mike

 

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[KNS Brakes]

Route BIG ASS hoses all the way to the right side of the engine bay as high up as you can. (Assuming a clockwise race track)

 

Once we routed everything right and used big hose the residue in the can was WAY reduced and the system worked as intended. That oil cap stuff is junk - get rid of it unless you only straight line drive.

[Th3Franz]

Grimmspeed Air Oil separator is for sale as of next week when it comes off the car. Sucks big time!

 

Are you sure you aren't trying to band-aid anything? What weight of oil do you run on the track?

[doccrowley]

Route BIG ASS hoses all the way to the right side of the engine bay as high up as you can. (Assuming a clockwise race track)

 

Once we routed everything right and used big hose the residue in the can was WAY reduced and the system worked as intended. That oil cap stuff is junk - get rid of it unless you only straight line drive.

 

Best suggestion yet! Motor builder/machine shop has taken the car from the mechanic. He doesn't like the pcv hose sizes that were used and the routing that was used. As the hose sizes reduce and then eventually to the catch can from the A/O separator he feels it is increasing PCV pressure and build-up. COBB tuning has laid out the Moroso set-up and hose sizes for the builder in this case. COBB supplied the Moroso catch cans.

 

 

Are you sure you aren't trying to band-aid anything? What weight of oil do you run on the track?

 

Motor builder has guaranteed that this dual catch set-up, routed properly, with proper hose sizing will eliminate the problem, or he'll pull the motor, tear it down and find the source of the excess oil showing up through the ventilation system. I like his guarantee.

 

Oil weight so far has not had a chance to come in to play. Car has leaked one or two laps into an event, mid-summer or winter, running the Rotella T6 5-40W syn. So far the events have been auto-cross style of one hot lap then stage for another rather than full sessions.

 

Motor builder wants 20-50weight for any track event that would be 20 minute sessions or greater during summer season.

 

Thanks for the help and suggestions, I really appreciate it.

[vkchu]

brains...

 

def would like to get some sort of catch can/aos setup - is the moroso dual setup preferred vs the crawford v2?

seems that the moroso does not re-use the oil and the cans need to be drained vs the crawford which reuses separated oil.

 

and would a pcv valve replacement be recommended (oem/aftermarket?).

 

sorta related, how does one know if fuel has already been contaminated by blow by?

thanks.

[boxkita]

 

Motor builder wants 20-50weight for any track event that would be 20 minute sessions or greater during summer season.

 

 

I have been using chevron 15-40 turbo diesel truck synthetic oil for my track days with great success. Having the KillerB oil pan and running 1/2 a quart more full has worked well.

 

The only issues I have had was during an ~hour session in high-heat (~90 degrees paddock temps), where I ended the session with about 3 quarts low.

 

I use a grimmspeed AOS (getting the oil cap to seal without leakage took some finessing...I used a torque wrench until I got the right feel).

[killerbmotorsport]

^ 3 quarts in an hour?!?

[GTTuner]

^ 3 quarts in an hour?!?

 

 

That seems normal for these cars. :lol:

[KNS Brakes]

That's definitely not normal.

 

I'd guess it's getting pumped right back into the intake.

[boxkita]

yeah, that freaked me out a bit. I had come in for an unrelated reason, fixed it, and went to start up to go back out. The engine sounded loud, so shut it down. The KillerB pan probably saved the motor (extra oil capacity). Since then, I always check my oil before starting, every time at the track.

 

there was no oil on the track (didnt get black flagged nor did any blue smoke show on the videos of ppl following), no oil in the paddock, no oil in the tray, no oil seepage.

 

I do get interesting colors out the exhaust pipe on startup at race days (black, blue, white, fading to nothing).

[AZP Installs]

 

Motor builder wants 20-50weight for any track event that would be 20 minute sessions or greater during summer season.

 

 

I have been using chevron 15-40 turbo diesel truck synthetic oil for my track days with great success. Having the KillerB oil pan and running 1/2 a quart more full has worked well.

 

The only issues I have had was during an ~hour session in high-heat (~90 degrees paddock temps), where I ended the session with about 3 quarts low.

 

I use a grimmspeed AOS (getting the oil cap to seal without leakage took some finessing...I used a torque wrench until I got the right feel).

 

The GSAOS has been shown to act like a siphon on track and has actually caused a few hydrolocked motors. I would use the Moroso catch can instead.

 

My guess is this is your issue.

 

-Paisan

 

 

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