Boostin1657615274 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I will be selling the LGT here very soon to pay off my car loan and other debt. I will have somewhere between $5,000-$6,000 to spend on my next vehicle. I really want a hatchback for practicality, and I want something I wont be tempted to mod very far so I can save money (I put over $8,000 in mods to my Legacy in 2 years, cant go down that path again...yet). So, this throws Honda EG/EF hatch out of the questions since they are too easy to turbo and all. Plus, they are hard to find with working A/C and none of them even came with power windows. So, essentially, I want a daily driveable hatchback that will be fun and maybe even autocross/track capable. Something that may require repair, but wont be notorious for repairs like, say, turbo Subarus often need (aka center diffs, oil pickup tubes, blown ringlands, etc). I also want something with manual transmission, A/C, power steering, power windows and preferrably a sunroof (which Honda hatches lack usually 4/5 of those things I mentioned). SVT Focus: Pros: -Well handling -Visually complete in stock form (IMO) -6-Speed -No temptation to mod engine beyond maybe an intake Cons: -18-30 mpg (not a huge concern) -Focus reliability? (help with this one) Golf/GTI 1.8T Pros: -Factory Trubo!!1! -Nice interior -Faster than SVT in straight line Cons: -Will want to mod turbo engine for more speed -Will want to make exterior look better -mpg isnt great on this one either -VW reliability? (help with this one also) Please help! Poll added to get some stats. If you vote for alternatives, please state what else! On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Focus. Cheaper to maintain, easier to get parts for and it doesn't have the reliability issues of VW. The 1.8 is the biggest POS motor they ever put out. They sludge badly when not strickly maintained, the clutches are weak, and everyone knows how bad the electrical systems are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Neither is very reliable but there are far more tuning options for the GTI. The 1.8T does not sludge often in transverse setups like in the GTI. It was the longitudinal 1.8T with the smaller oil pan that had the most sludge issues. You can't go wrong with either one really. BTW, now is a terrible time to be buying a used car as the prices are very high. I would wait a few months to see if it cools down a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Neither is very reliable Can you elaborate on this? Ive heard that about both cars but can't find concrete evidence to back either claim. I expect a timing belt will wear and require replacement, and I expect a turbo with 120,000 miles on it to need replacement. These are about the extent of complaints I've found. BTW, now is a terrible time to be buying a used car as the prices are very high. I would wait a few months to see if it cools down a little. Wish I had a choice, but it's either buy now or drive around a 1995 F150 that averages 12-13 mpg. On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 To me this is easy - the Focus SVT. It handles and looks much better, it's roomier, and it should be more reliable. Let's face it, almost anything is more reliable than a VW from that era. You'll also be too tempted to mod the VW. They don't handle very well so you'll want to mod the suspension, and the turbo engine is fairly easy to get more power from, so you'll want to mod that as well. And none of those mods is going to help the VW's reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Look at the alternatives like the Toyota Matrix too. Toyota has a general reputation for being reliable. Not too bad on gas either. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/25308.shtml Over here Ford are also having a reputation for getting old (with subsequent failures) pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Matrix isnt a bad idea, but unfortunately, the XRS with a 6-speed is pretty hard to find, and wont be worth searching for in my opinion. I want something a little nicer/special edition/top of the line. Also, just added to my criteria manual transmission, forgot to add that earlier. On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 What about the Mazdaspeed3? http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=MS3#/home KIA Rio5? Fiat Bravo? BMW 3-series? If you were living in Europe then there would have been other alternatives too: Peugeot 308SW: http://www.peugeot.com/en/products/cars/Peugeot-308-sw.aspx Fiat Punto Evo 5-Door or Fiat Bravo. Alfa Romeo 159sw: http://www.alfaromeo.com/com/#/models/159sw (Just throwing fuel on the fire today! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Can you elaborate on this? Ive heard that about both cars but can't find concrete evidence to back either claim. I expect a timing belt will wear and require replacement, and I expect a turbo with 120,000 miles on it to need replacement. These are about the extent of complaints I've found. Wish I had a choice, but it's either buy now or drive around a 1995 F150 that averages 12-13 mpg. When buying a used car, especially a performance type, you are at the mercy of the previous owners maintenance and driving habits. Whatever you decide on I would have it thoroughly inspected by an independent mechanic. CR lists average to much below average reliability for both the Focus and Golf/GTI, with a slight edge going to the Focus for being more reliable. But like I said, neither will be as reliable as a Japanese car and you need to be more concerned with the condition of the used car that you are buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 What about the Mazdaspeed3? http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=MS3#/home This is the ideal vehicle for me, but about 3x my budget, which is $5,000-$6,000 as stated in the OP. KIA Rio5? Wouldnt exactly define this as a 'fun' car. Also, too new and double my budget. Fiat Bravo? Not sold in the U. S. and A. BMW 3-series? Really looking for a 4 cylinder, and my dignity won't allow me to own a BMW. If you were living in Europe then there would have been other alternatives too: Peugeot 308SW: http://www.peugeot.com/en/products/cars/Peugeot-308-sw.aspx Fiat Punto Evo 5-Door or Fiat Bravo. Alfa Romeo 159sw: http://www.alfaromeo.com/com/#/models/159sw (Just throwing fuel on the fire today! ) I wish America had the same selection as Europe for hatchbacks! There are several cars overseas I would love to own. On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 When buying a used car, especially a performance type, you are at the mercy of the previous owners maintenance and driving habits. Whatever you decide on I would have it thoroughly inspected by an independent mechanic. CR lists average to much below average reliability for both the Focus and Golf/GTI, with a slight edge going to the Focus for being more reliable. But like I said, neither will be as reliable as a Japanese car and you need to be more concerned with the condition of the used car that you are buying. I appreciate the advice, and have gone through this several times when buying my LGT and helping my friends buy an RX-7, an STi, etc. I actually am an independent mechanic, I run a side business for repairing and modding cars. I always bring one of my close mechanic friends with me when buying a car. I agree I want to find a good condition one. I understand that Japanese is more reliable, but I'm slightly more concerned with having a car I enjoy owning and driving over just having something that is reliable. I am more interested in what MAKES these cars unreliable, and are they unreliable to the average owner that brings their car to a shop, or are they unreliable to someone who stays on top of their car maintenance and knows exactly what to look for? On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 When ford still owned volvo the rumor was the new focus svt here would be the focus st in europe which is a t5 volvo engine so I would say go for it. The rs was using a variation of this engine as well. I saw a reg new focus in nyc yesterday and it did look pretty decent. MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Reliability would be similar. But you'll loose major benefit of Fords here: cheap repairs. SVT has plenty of special parts not easily found on junkyards. If I was constrained by 5-6k budget I'd look into smth else. Protege5, for example. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 ^^^ +1 The engine block and maybe the crankshaft are pretty much the only things that the SVT engine has in common with the regular 2.0 zetec motors. The transmissions are supposedly the same getrag 6 speet used in the mini cooper s, though... What about a last generation integra? Power windows, A/C, manual trans, and a hatchback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 If I was constrained by 5-6k budget I'd look into smth else. Protege5, for example. I concur, but Protege5's in these parts are all starting to rust horribly around the rear wheel arches. This is a common problem with Mazdas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I appreciate the advice, and have gone through this several times when buying my LGT and helping my friends buy an RX-7, an STi, etc. I actually am an independent mechanic, I run a side business for repairing and modding cars. I always bring one of my close mechanic friends with me when buying a car. I agree I want to find a good condition one. I understand that Japanese is more reliable, but I'm slightly more concerned with having a car I enjoy owning and driving over just having something that is reliable. I am more interested in what MAKES these cars unreliable, and are they unreliable to the average owner that brings their car to a shop, or are they unreliable to someone who stays on top of their car maintenance and knows exactly what to look for? Many of the issues with the VWs are not caused by negligent maintenance. My 2001 Passat 1.8T had a lots of issues and NONE were caused by poor maintenance as I took extremely good care of it. It's hard to prevent electrical problems with preventative maintenance. Sludging yes, most everything else, not so much. Examine under the oil filler cap to check the oil condition and try to get complete records of every oil change and what type of oil was used if possible. VW has specific oil requirements. The Focus I am not that familiar with. I just know that CR has a lot of black dots in many areas and they had numerous recalls when they were introduced. I would suggest buying a subscription so you can get a better idea of what might be problem areas. CR+ subscriptions have more specific descriptions of common problems within each category. Best of luck and happy hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 If I was constrained by 5-6k budget I'd look into smth else. Budget meaning initial car cost. By selling my car I will be freeing up my budget to allow for repairs and even light mods if I so desire. What about a last generation integra? Power windows, A/C, manual trans, and a hatchback. I am looking for a more traditional hatchback, not a sports coupe with a hatch-style trunk. More along the lines of Golf, Mazda3 hatch, Focus hatch, etc. Many of the issues with the VWs are not caused by negligent maintenance. My 2001 Passat 1.8T had a lots of issues and NONE were caused by poor maintenance as I took extremely good care of it. It's hard to prevent electrical problems with preventative maintenance. Sludging yes, most everything else, not so much. Examine under the oil filler cap to check the oil condition and try to get complete records of every oil change and what type of oil was used if possible. VW has specific oil requirements. The Focus I am not that familiar with. I just know that CR has a lot of black dots in many areas and they had numerous recalls when they were introduced. I would suggest buying a subscription so you can get a better idea of what might be problem areas. CR+ subscriptions have more specific descriptions of common problems within each category. Best of luck and happy hunting. Thats exactly what I was looking to hear about VW's. I have heard they are unreliable, but I didnt know what caused it. That pretty much answers my question and continues to sway me more towards the Focus. Also, about the Protege5, I like the looks but that's more of a Wagon than a Hatchback. Also, is that car really at all sporty/well handling? On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_j Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 rsx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 rsx? I am looking for a more traditional hatchback, not a sports coupe with a hatch-style trunk. More along the lines of Golf, Mazda3 hatch, Focus hatch, etc. On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I'd look for a 2002-2005 Honda Civic Si hatchback. Not easy to find because this body style did not sell well in the U.S. and was replaced w/ sedan and coupe Si versions in the next generation. Very cool though, IMO. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Honda_Civic_Si_EP3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodax Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I used to drive a Ford Focus and sorry to say a SVT Ford Focus is easy to turbo. I believe there is a bolt on turbo right now on the market. You should go check out the Focus forum. They have everything you need there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 May consider the Civic Si of those year, but the two things I hate: -Manual shifter position is a huge turn-off for me -They look like mini minivans Also, they still have a relatively high resale around $7-8k, which isnt worth it imo. Kodax, I will be ignoring your comment. On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Kodax, I will be ignoring your comment. I wont. Go back to HouseOfVtec you ricer. SVT Focus is not 5-6k unless you are looking for a beat one. Maybe you can get lucky. Ive only ridden in one but it seemed like a lot of fun for a failWD. A Civic SI would be a good choice if you can keep it from getting stolen, which you cant. Also can be a lot of fun. Whats great about the VW? Its COMMON and fairly cheap. Whats not? Its a used VW. Whats good? Focus ZX3. Yeah thats right, the plain old Focus ZX3. Under 5k wth LOW LOW miles. Plenty left over for wheels/tires and insurance. My 2c even tho' they are worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hmm I actually got nothing out of your input, but I appreciate the effort. By the way, did I mention I just want something fun and halfway economical until I save for my next build, which will most likely be a single turbo SC300? On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodax Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Come on, who doesn't like more power? If my memory serves me right, a focus can handle up to 300 horsepower without any problems. But it is FWD, so it won't be as fun as a LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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