TINTs, TINTs, TINTS. So many out there

[Robdownunder]

G'day all,

May I offer my 2c worth here from a professional stance and tell you where I'm coming from.

There are quite some innocently misinformed opinions expressed here on this topic that I'd like to help clear up.

 

My cred....I've been professionally window tinting for 29 years, nearly 30 and I reckon I have personally filmed over 500,000 windows in my time and so many cars that it would film a huge sports stadium on a good day so..........

 

The new Liberty/Legacy..........

Any, and I mean any metal or ceramic film installed on a back window of this car will affect AM radio reception/GPS/TV. If it doesn't, then it ain't one or the other of these 2.

It would have to be a non-reflective pigmented dyed film only on the rear and metal/ceramic on the sides and the difference is obvious.

 

Huper Optiks Ceramic Stark 30 for example on my 2001 H6 outback does play up with the radio.....fact. These films are very reflective externally and that's fine if that is your aesthetic preference. Their scratch-resistant coating is very noticable under fluro lighting conditions and that is evident by an oil slick/rainbow appearance on the surface of the polyester....more so than other film brands I've encountered.

It is not easily heat shrunk for curved windows and is therefore not tinter friendly from a industry point of view. "Ghosting" in the substrate can arise on rears where heat guns have been known to be used for moulding and heat forming the pleats prior to application on the inside.

 

My GT has 3M metal on it (I've just bought it 12 months old second hand where the previous owner had it installed) and it drives me crazy trying to listen to AM.

The further out of town away from the radio station the worse it gets in interference! This will be hopefully coming all off this week if business time permits.

 

The installation.......

Absolutely forget "destroy-it-yourself" film material if you have a pride in your ride.

It is not rocket science but what is though is the ability to get it onto the glass looking like it came out of Subaru originally.

Some of you do crack me up saying that patience is all that is needed. Well let me tell you that all the patience in the world does Jack S... if you haven't done it before professionally. Don't give up your day jobs! LOL

 

Why the possible variation in installed cost?

Well the guy doing the job for peanuts ain't going to be doing door trim removal and custom fitting.

Shaved edging (not filed) and film attachment to the bottom of the double internal weather seal is imperative for a job to never come back under warranty.

One piece rears with relief cuts in it on the demister line are a no-no and so is the excuse I've already read for bubbles. That's dirt!

 

What I should get.......

If it comes to solar control, you have to look at a few non-reflective films and guage the performance samples you might procure from varying manufacturers with a BTU meter. Most professional tint shops should have one.

Keep the film legal and conform to your local authority. 35% VLT (Visible Light Transmission)all round is perfectly adequate over factory green coloured glass Subaru supplies OEM and is a great compromise for day and the all important night vision. Do not do front windshields!

Make sure your film is colour stable, not all films are and only some offer a warranty on this.

Determine what exactly is covered by BS lifetime warranties. What is a lifetime? A film may last 2 years and that's its life or another may last 100 years and that's its life ...understand????

Some distributors might cover film but labour cost no........ and that could be the killer later on.

Make sure your film is optically clear and not grainy and free of polyester distortions.

Check that the manufacturer is warranting the whole shooting match otherwise your fitter could go out of business and you are left with a problem.

Make sure your tinter knows how to remove the troublesome grab handle on this Subaru without damaging it. There's a whole story in that alone.

 

Anyway, that is more than enough to get you going even if I have tried unsuccessfully to compress 30 years of experience in just a few paragraphs.

 

Remember one thing....this job is an art form and very few make it work the way it should be.

 

Later,

Rob

Car Tint Pty. Ltd.

Melbourne,

Australia

[sduford]

Thanks a lot for that post Rob, very useful information as I am planning to get my OBXT tinted soon.

 

BTW: Lifetime Warranty normally refers to the life of the car it is installed on. But one should definitely read the fine print.

[Robdownunder]

You are all welcome...fire away anything you like on this topic.

Rob.

[sduford]

You are all welcome...fire away anything you like on this topic.

Rob.

 

What are your favourite tinting products?

[Kaptan]

I just had my car tinted last week. Leeberbs from Kenilsworth, NJ did the job and it looks great! It's 20% all around and the tint goes to the very edge of the window - NO tan lines:lol:

 

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/mikek712/June_Legacy2.jpg

 

http://www.geocities.com/mikek712/June_Legacy1.jpg

 

http://www.geocities.com/mikek712/June_Legacy3.jpg

[leeberbs]

Nice pics.

 

just to add...that is Madico's Charcool 20%. Pigmented...no metal content = no interference with anything electronic.

[Robdownunder]

Nice pics.

 

just to add...that is Madico's Charcool 20%. Pigmented...no metal content = no interference with anything electronic.

 

Sduford,

I personally have liked the Madico products out of Boston for over 25 years and I'm an accredited state dealer for it down here in OZ.

They make a great product, have the occasional niggles one might from time to time get but on the whole I'm happy with them.

 

Personally the lighter Madico Charcool 35% is more than adequate and is legal for our Australia. 20% isn't down here!

 

Charcool's colour is orientated towards Subaru's green in the OEM glass which really makes for a unique match aesthetically. Totally different to traditional greys I see posted here.

 

Regards,

Rob.

[suba_rus]

Just did mine

 

35% all around. Johnson film.

[leeberbs]

Sduford,

Charcool's colour is orientated towards Subaru's green in the OEM glass which really makes for a unique match aesthetically. Totally different to traditional greys I see posted here.

 

Regards,

Rob.

 

Exactly why it goes on all subarus that come in my shop. You know your stuff Rob.

[LGTL]

I'm going crazy with the whole tinting. I have a black legacy and was ready to have it done at 15% with metalic like my two friends. Then i read here that it will screw up AM (talk radio keeps me awake on long trips) and that it could potential effect my radar. Two no no's. So i look around but can't find anyone in the northeastern indiana area that will do 15% with ceramic. Well, now people are saying ceramic will intererfee also. Are there good non metalic/ceramic tints that i shouldn't be afraid of? Has anybody with the ceramic tint noticed interferance?

 

Lastly, i'm still debating15% vs 30%. 15 looks better but i find it a bit distracting at night. Has night vision been a deciding factor for anybody other than the fellow with a ranger?

 

Any suggested tinters in the Indianapolis/Fort Wayne area?

 

thanks!

[Robdownunder]

Exactly why it goes on all subarus that come in my shop. You know your stuff Rob.

 

Thanks mate...i should after all these moons!

 

For LGTL.

I'm enclosing an Aussie Liberty GT in black with 35% Madico Charcool on it and you'd have to agree it looks absolutely fantastic.

Regards,

Rob.

 

http://img10.echo.cx/img10/6606/gtlibertyblack4fe.jpg

[leeberbs]

Well, now people are saying ceramic will intererfee also. Are there good non metalic/ceramic tints that i shouldn't be afraid of? Has anybody with the ceramic tint noticed interferance?

 

Lastly, i'm still debating15% vs 30%. 15 looks better but i find it a bit distracting at night. Has night vision been a deciding factor for anybody other than the fellow with a ranger?

 

Any suggested tinters in the Indianapolis/Fort Wayne area?

 

thanks!

 

There have been stories about folks experiencing interference even with expensive ceramic based films.

 

Read this thread (down to post #26 or so) http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9890

 

Since I only use Madico Film I know FOR SURE that the Charcool line doesn't bother anything you use in the car. Just be warned that within the Charcool line the 55%, 35% and 20% have no metal in them at all, however the 5% does. If you plan on going that dark use the Charcoal 5%. It is the same hue but has no metal.

 

Try calling Midwest Marketing @ 1.800.638.4332. They're a Madico distributor out in your area and can direct you to a local shop.

 

Good luck

[leeberbs]

Rob, I did the same thing on mine...Charcool 35% on an Atlantic Blue LGT sedan

[Robdownunder]

Nice to see I'm in good company Lee.

 

Do you sell much Madico Onyx 35%? It's quite a big seller for me on cars that do not have antennas in rear screens.

I've got plenty of pictures of GT's but I've never had a blue one in.

 

Rob.

[leeberbs]

Back in the day my favorite was the Auto Lux series, then the Onyx was poplular because of it's heat rejection specs. But these days it seems that everyone has either radar, cell phone, PDA / Lap top GPS, satellite radio etc....and to avoid any trouble at all everyone usually goes with the Charcool.

 

I still get the occasional customer that goes all out and gets Onyx 5 all around.

 

-Lee

[LGTL]

There have been stories about folks experiencing interference even with expensive ceramic based films.

 

Read this thread (down to post #26 or so) http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9890

 

Since I only use Madico Film I know FOR SURE that the Charcool line doesn't bother anything you use in the car. Just be warned that within the Charcool line the 55%, 35% and 20% have no metal in them at all, however the 5% does. If you plan on going that dark use the Charcoal 5%. It is the same hue but has no metal.

 

Try calling Midwest Marketing @ 1.800.638.4332. They're a Madico distributor out in your area and can direct you to a local shop.

 

Good luck

 

Great, thanks! I think 20% would be optimal. 35% is a little to light and 15% on my friends is a little too dark. I'll call them.

 

Thanks again.

[LGTL]

Ok, i called the marketing number and found a local Madico installer. She has been doing it for 15 years, but recently took a job with the post office and is now doing it part time at her residence. Should alarms be going off? Also the rate is 130 for 20% charcool.. cheap... i'm willing to spend more for a quality job.

 

Lastly, does the charcool fade, change collars.. etc? I was under the impression that all non metalics did so with time.

 

Is charcool any better than say Llumar? There is a local large tinter company that has it in stock. Sorry for all the dumb questions.

 

 

Thanks,

James

[leeberbs]

Ok, i called the marketing number and found a local Madico installer. She has been doing it for 15 years, but recently took a job with the post office and is now doing it part time at her residence. Should alarms be going off? Also the rate is 130 for 20% charcool.. cheap... i'm willing to spend more for a quality job.

 

Lastly, does the charcool fade, change collars.. etc? I was under the impression that all non metalics did so with time.

 

Is charcool any better than say Llumar? There is a local large tinter company that has it in stock. Sorry for all the dumb questions.

 

 

Thanks,

James

 

That's a tough one. She could be a damn good tinter in a squeeze for benefits for her family or something. Or there may not be enough business out there to keep a shop running? Ask her for photos of her work (all good tinters keep photos) or see if you can swing by and check out a car she does in the next few days. Otherwise, I wouldn't chance it and would probably go to a well established shop that has a good reputation in the area.

 

Call Midwest Marketing and ask them for another shop if you don't mind the drive. Or check the forums on http://www.tintdude.com There's also a tinters registry somewhere in there.

 

Realistically, by the time Charcool begins to show signs of fading we'll all be driving Legacy STi's...it will last a long time. Probably longer than you'll own the car. The dyed films will fade quickly (a year or two in heavy sun). Charcool is pigmented...not dyed...color is added to the film before it's strung out into rolls.

 

Llumar makes some good films. Ask the local Llumar dealer if he/she carries a pigmented film and also make sure that on frameless doors they shave/file the edges.

 

-Lee

[Robdownunder]

The Charcool has been on the international market, not forever, but a reasonable amount of years.

 

It is manufacturer guaranteed to be colour stable and personally I haven't seen any degradation in it yet. That's excellent!

 

Same goes for their Onyx Lee but I wouldn't advise that for the new GT because of the metal content.

 

"Do bear in mind that climate conditions and in particular the amount of sun exposure you as an owner subject your cars' glass to will affect longevity. This is regardless of which film manufacturer, so don't always be sucked into the BS lifetime warranty thing.

It has been a marketing ploy that has gotten right out of control and Lee over there will agree with me on that.

 

Regards,

Rob.

[iyamdman]

I love my tint - 15%, but I didn't have the option of 20%, just 35% which is too light.

 

The 15% is great and very good on a typical SoCal sunny day on the freeway.

 

If I have the option of 20%, that would be a little better - mostly for backing up at night.

[LGTL]

That's a tough one. She could be a damn good tinter in a squeeze for benefits for her family or something. Or there may not be enough business out there to keep a shop running? Ask her for photos of her work (all good tinters keep photos) or see if you can swing by and check out a car she does in the next few days. Otherwise, I wouldn't chance it and would probably go to a well established shop that has a good reputation in the area.

 

Call Midwest Marketing and ask them for another shop if you don't mind the drive. Or check the forums on www.tintdude.com There's also a tinters registry somewhere in there.

 

Realistically, by the time Charcool begins to show signs of fading we'll all be driving Legacy STi's...it will last a long time. Probably longer than you'll own the car. The dyed films will fade quickly (a year or two in heavy sun). Charcool is pigmented...not dyed...color is added to the film before it's strung out into rolls.

 

Llumar makes some good films. Ask the local Llumar dealer if he/she carries a pigmented film and also make sure that on frameless doors they shave/file the edges.

 

-Lee

 

I called a local tinter (fairly large, the largest refused to do nonlegal jobs ;( ), its LLumar AT. They said it doesn't faid because the processed used was "charing"? Is that another name for pigmented?

[Robdownunder]

Well good on them for not doing illegal because they are trying to protect their future livelihood where they would have thousands of dollars invested in their businesses and keeping the automotive tinting industry viable.

 

Re: the numbering system quoted by previous posters. Do you have any idea what these numbers mean?

A quick reality lesson........the percentage figure relates to the amount of visible light that is possible to be transmitted through the film on clear glass from the sun.

 

So when any of you quote a likeable figure of say dark 15, it means that you are driving around in a car that is knocking out a whopping 85% of the visible light we need to see.

Now Subaru students......when we combine that figure over factory OEM glass that is pre-tinted/coloured, it brings that 15 in this case to a lower figure of about 12% or thereabouts.

 

As Dirty Harry would say........"do I feel lucky punk... driving especially at night?"

The answer should be considered very closely especially when insurance is involved and possible litigation in the event of an accident or serious injury could cost you dearly.

 

Later,

Rob.

[LGTL]

Well good on them for not doing illegal because they are trying to protect their future livelihood where they would have thousands of dollars invested in their businesses and keeping the automotive tinting industry viable.

 

Re: the numbering system quoted by previous posters. Do you have any idea what these numbers mean?

A quick reality lesson........the percentage figure relates to the amount of visible light that is possible to be transmitted through the film on clear glass from the sun.

 

So when any of you quote a likeable figure of say dark 15, it means that you are driving around in a car that is knocking out a whopping 85% of the visible light we need to see.

Now Subaru students......when we combine that figure over factory OEM glass that is pre-tinted/coloured, it brings that 15 in this case to a lower figure of about 12% or thereabouts.

 

As Dirty Harry would say........"do I feel lucky punk... driving especially at night?"

The answer should be considered very closely especially when insurance is involved and possible litigation in the event of an accident or serious injury could cost you dearly.

 

Later,

Rob.

'

 

 

but it looks so nice.. Why is the selection so limited? where is the 25%..

[leeberbs]

The difference between 20% and 25% is slight enough that you'd be lucky to see it with just your eyes. A light meter would tell them apart easily.

 

Check around with other manufacturers to see who has something between the two. A few other film manufacturers that have been in the game for a while are: Sun Guard, Solar Guard, Formula One, Johnson and 3M to name a few.

 

Rob - Did you ever use the old Auto Lux line? AL-21 was some of the best looking film in my opinion.

[LGTL]

Largest dealer only carries Lumar also. They suggest the 35% Charcol AT series, says it has a lifetime warrenty (will redo if it fades/discolors while i own the car) and has been holding up much better than the llumar grey series.

 

They said they have been in the business for 15+ years (local dealers use them i know) but they they never use files. She says if you leave it flush with the edge of the window (assume this is the benefit to filing?) it is very likely to peel. Said i could have it done that way if desired but they wouldn't warrenty against peeling. She said they leave about 1/8 inch on all cars as their standard approach.