frank_ster Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 if your ideling at 14.7 that is actually 11-1 .. and pure ethanol stoic is 9 -1 afr so it does make sence .. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 Found this on the net.. All AFR's regardless of fuel type work off of a common number called Lambda. A value of 1.0 in Lambda represents the stoich for any fuel. Gasoline is Lambda 1.0 at stoich. E85 is Lambda 1.0 at stoich. If you already have a standard gasoline AFR meter hooked to a wideband O2 sensor, you can still use the displayed gasoline AFRs in determining your engine's true AFR. For example, if your gasoline meter is showing 14.7, then we know this is Lamda of 1.0. The equivelent on the E85 side is around 9.7. Therefore you can conclude that the 14.7 you see on the gauge is a true AFR of 9.7. This allows you to effectively use existing gasoline AFR components or software to tune an E85 Mustang without buying special equipment. Simply use the same target AFRs on your gasoline gauge that you normally targeted for gasoline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 ^ yes exactly. isn't that what i said ? i was just wondering how you guys go about control change to e 85. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 yes so you need to change it !! as is 14.7 on the gauge is 11 in reality 11 on the gauge is like 7 in reality! Everything made sense except this part. There is no real need to change it since stoich is 1 regardless of fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 I think most people use the gasoline afr to track the tune. Many use lambda - I don't think many use the real e85 afr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 ah ok .. and they run as rich as 11 -1 ? with e 85 ? why not leaner ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I keep this very, very simple. I run E85 and have the WB02 and romraider both report in lambda (rather than converting to AFR, which is default). My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 what is the peak torque lambda for e 85 ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 http://www.xtremeracingtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=192 i found this .. Part Throttle lean (max eco) AFR of 16.5:1(11.0:1) 12.4% leaner than STOICH Part Throttle rich AFR of 14.7:1(9.8:1) Spool up... AFR of 13.5:1(9.00:1) WOT... AFR of 12.1:1(8.06:1) 17.7% richer than STOICH 18.0:1=12.000 17.5:1=11.666 17.0:1=11.333 16.5:1=11.000 16.0:1=10.666 15.5:1=10.333 15.0:1=10.000 14.5:1=9.666 14.0:1=9.333 13.5:1=9.000 13.0:1=8.666 12.5:1=8.333 12.0:1=8.000 11.5:1=7.666 11.0:1=7.333 is this about what you guys figure ? Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Spec B, did you notice any increase or decrease in spool when switching to e85? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Spool'd slightly quicker. Off boost response increased significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Do you mind posting logs from both your pump gas and e85 tune so that I can compare with mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I will dig them out when I get home. I don't think the increased spool will be apparent in the logs - I would say I gained 50-75 RPM from the time I went WOT at 2000 RPM until the time I hit full boost (20 PSI). I was hiting peak at around 3300-3400RPM on the VF43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I would be comparing other things as well, like timing and afr. I should have made that more clear. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Here are the last ones before I installed the FP HTA68. Looks like it was spooling even quicker than I remembered - full boost around 3200. romraiderlog_20110918_085058.csv romraiderlog_20110918_084743.csv romraiderlog_20111002_171241.csv I was targeting 11.4-11.5 afr on the high end. The midrange fueling (and boost control) still needed some work - I never got to it fine tuning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikiller Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I don't know if the RR tool is that great. I'd use a different method. There are several. But you are on the right track... I want my observed WB02 values to be the same as what my map is calling for.. bottom line. I start with a flat AFR (like 0.80 lambda) and adjust my scaling from there. I wonder if witchhunter can just mod your existing injectors, clean 'em, and give you flow sheets. But LBGT had a disaster with modded injectors so don't know I'd recommend that.. and supposedly PE850's are the devil but they've been fine for me [insert injector debate here]. I wouldn't look for PE850's though because I really think there are a couple variants of them.. and mine are obviously fine but there might be a legitimate problem with some of them(?) That's what the interweb sez anyhow. I'm using pe850's and have no problems yet...what is the deal with them "the devil" as you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I'm using pe850's and have no problems yet...what is the deal with them "the devil" as you say? No problems ever here either. They are one of those rumored parts that supposedly don't work but when you ask people that actually use them they work just fine. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Ok - need more help. So I am slowly getting my boost and fueling under control and the car is running very strong and knock free. Since I only get time to work on the tune once every couple of weeks - it has been slow going. Anyway, my latest issue is what I believe to be compressor surge. I have attached a few logs that captures the event. Around 3200-4000 RPM, even though boost is staying relatively stable, my maf V is bouncing all over the place. Not sure what do do about it. I tried dialing back boost a couple of psi but the problem persists. It happens on every WOT logging run. Any input would be appreciated. Can this be a mechanical problem - maybe my stock turbo inlet collapsing? Machanically everything is tip-top, no vac leaks, inlet tears or any issue that I can find. LV's are clean - less than 2% adjustment accross the board. Mods: - DW850s - Walboro - XO2 FMIC - AEM CAI - GMS EBCS - Gutted Up - Invidia DP - Cobb Exaust - FP HTA68 7cm - E85 Tune OS Tune romraiderlog_20111106_141735.csv romraiderlog_20111106_104137.csv romraiderlog_20111106_103119.csv romraiderlog_20111106_085459.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I would say that LittleblueGT has nailed it..... If you all remember when my car was tuned on E85 at Cobb plano with the AVO380 I had the same exact problem. I believe it was fuel pressure, so I changed the FPR but never had it rechecked. The reason I think it was FP was because 2 stage 2 STI's tuned on the same dyno after me on E85 with 850's and they were only at 80-85% IDC, at the same PSI as me. Lots of people have tuned 850's, E85 and not been near 100% DC. To me it would be FP either caused by the FPR or something with the pump (o'ring etc) in the tank.... Im no tuner like Little blue but that would be my guess. My motor is going in at Cobb Plano in a few weeks, and at their recommend I am switching to ID1000's and parallel fuel lines. When he does the tune I will let everyone know what I find out. I know the 1000's will be better but we should be able to check and see what is going on if the DC is still high... Here is a thread that is an update to this problem. Go to post 42 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fuel-pump-control-module-143860p3.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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