kaz98gt Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm think the dealer replaced the master cyl a few years back for the original owners, I will have to review the service records to be sure. This. I had my master cylinder changed out under a recall, and everything was bled properly and new fluid put in and whatnot. Even with the same older pads on back then, I noticed better pedal feel with the new cylinder in. Now with my new gear, it feels great, but yeah I know what you mean about the softer brakes compared to other cars. My dad's audi grabs and doesn't let go; it's night and day compared to my subaru. That 7-series master cylinder swap is an interesting idea...do you think there's a larger master cylinder out there from a fozzy or something that could be swapped in to ours for some extra power to the brakes? Or is there an aftermarket upgrade that we can pick up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Though since you replaced your brake system completely I would replace the master cylinder. The seals in it are definitely worn out. -Sean This. I had my master cylinder changed out under a recall, and everything was bled properly and new fluid put in and whatnot. Even with the same older pads on back then, I noticed better pedal feel with the new cylinder in. Now with my new gear, it feels great, but yeah I know what you mean about the softer brakes compared to other cars. My dad's audi grabs and doesn't let go; it's night and day compared to my subaru. I've just checked the service records on my wife's LGT. The original owners had the master cylinder replaced in late '99 under dealer recall, at about 30K. The car now has 110K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Maybe an H6 outback has one or wrx/sti. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WESTcoast Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well, everything makes sense now, LOL. Thanks for looking into it. WESTcoast, would it be okay if I asked you to make a quick edit to your post in the Second Gen. Aftermarket Parts and Upgrade Guide thread to include full H6 rear calipers and brackets in your list of necessary supplies for this rear brake upgrade? Just to keep the information consistent and help avoid confusion for the next guy. I really valued the information you provided in these threads! This is your post: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3259551&postcount=188 Thanks! changed and changed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drv2e30 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 This. I had my master cylinder changed out under a recall, and everything was bled properly and new fluid put in and whatnot. Even with the same older pads on back then, I noticed better pedal feel with the new cylinder in. Now with my new gear, it feels great, but yeah I know what you mean about the softer brakes compared to other cars. My dad's audi grabs and doesn't let go; it's night and day compared to my subaru. That 7-series master cylinder swap is an interesting idea...do you think there's a larger master cylinder out there from a fozzy or something that could be swapped in to ours for some extra power to the brakes? Or is there an aftermarket upgrade that we can pick up? It would definitely be interesting to see if there was a bigger master cylinder. I believe the STI master cylinder is a bit of an increase, so it might be something to consider installing. Remember you did increase the size of the bore for your brake pistons without also increasing the size of the Master Cylinder bore. Both must remain within a certain ratio or pedal feel will change, barring the age of failing rubber gaskets or brake fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 My pedal is also soft and I bled it properly. I also currently have the stock setup. Since I now have to do an engine replacement and pay to have it done since I don't have the space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 changed and changed!! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 It would definitely be interesting to see if there was a bigger master cylinder. I believe the STI master cylinder is a bit of an increase, so it might be something to consider installing. Remember you did increase the size of the bore for your brake pistons without also increasing the size of the Master Cylinder bore. Both must remain within a certain ratio or pedal feel will change, barring the age of failing rubber gaskets or brake fluid. In actuality, the brake caliper piston sizes are exactly the same as stock with this swap. The front WRX 2-piston calipers are identical (except for the taller mounting brackets) to the LGT 2-piston calipers.* The rear H6 1-piston calipers are not identical to the rear LGT 1-piston calipers, but are similar in overall size. I believe the H6 rear pistons are the identically sized as stock, however. It is the rotor size increase that is the primary aspect of the WRX/H6 upgrade. Nonetheless, an improved master cylinder would be a welcome upgrade. *When using MY2002 WRX front calipers, as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 yep brake bias stays the same as does the piston surface area. You're increasing brake torque and heat capacity only. When upgrading cars with 1-pot fronts you do end up with more piston area and pedal travel and bias issues. With my old 93 I had wrx fronts and h6 rears, which did maintain stock bias, but there was a noticeable increase in pedal travel since the piston area had gone up on all four corners. I think that car only had a 15/16 MC. legacy777 has a very handy brake math spreadsheet on his site somewhere with all this info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 yep brake bias stays the same as does the piston surface area. You're increasing brake torque and heat capacity only. When upgrading cars with 1-pot fronts you do end up with more piston area and pedal travel and bias issues. With my old 93 I had wrx fronts and h6 rears, which did maintain stock bias, but there was a noticeable increase in pedal travel since the piston area had gone up on all four corners. I think that car only had a 15/16 MC. legacy777 has a very handy brake math spreadsheet on his site somewhere with all this info. So since I have an L I should get a GT Brake Master cylinder or do you have a recommendation for an upgrade? I plan on doing WRX fronts H6 rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think the GT has a 1 1/16 MC which would be good and means less pedal travel and more effort- i.e. better brake feel. If you don't have ABS the SVX non-abs master cylinder is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think the GT has a 1 1/16 MC which would be good and means less pedal travel and more effort- i.e. better brake feel. If you don't have ABS the SVX non-abs master cylinder is the way to go. My L seems to have come with every factory option available. So I do have ABS. Any other Brake Master Cylinders other then the GT that would work? Or just go with a GT one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Try to look into an wrx/sti or maybe the h6 master cylinder. I bet on nosioc there has been someone that has done something similar with the mater cylinder swap. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'm gonna look into this when I get home, this would be something i'd want to experiment with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Let me know what you guys come up with. I will just buy new from napa or autozone. I just currently don't have money to throw around since I am going to have a new engine put in. Along with Group N STI Engine Mounts, STI Pitch Stop, and Grimmspeed phenolic spacers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) it needs to be from an older car unless you want to swap the brake booster too. As far as I know the LGT and SVX were the only cars to get the 1 1/16 MC that will swap right in. If I was going to go through the trouble I would probably also try to find a single diaphram brake booster. I *think* that most 1st gen imprezas came with them and they are also on some 2nd gen Legacys. centric part numbers are: 130.47023 - abs LGT MC (need to confirm it's actually 1 1/16) 130.47019 - non-abs SVX MC Edited February 15, 2011 by jamal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have a lot to figure out about all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 ^^ same here dude. Cool concept, wish I had done an upgrade to the whole brake system while I had it apart though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I am revisiting this because I have been thinking about it. Does anyone know if an 02-07 WRX brake master cylinder and booster would be interchangeable and how hard it would be to do? Seems I can get an 04 Master Cylinder and brake booster from autozone for a hair over $200 any other things I would need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Also would it matter weather I have an Auto or MT if I was able to do the swap and would ABS become a factor here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I believe abs controllers for auto and manual are different. Atleast I know in the 2nd gens they are. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Well chit. Was hoping to do a MBC and BB swap later. Can't dig up much info on iot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 arent you planning on the 5spd swap in the near future? You must document the brake swap if you do them much like this tread. BTW how is everything on the LGT going camron? -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroncamera Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 BTW how is everything on the LGT going camron? Our LGT wagon has been running great. It is now my wife's daily, and she is very happy with it. No more instances of overheating. I think I still have a leak in the sunroof area, so I will be checking on my earlier repair there - the front passenger footwell is getting soaked again. :/ Just got some new custom Weathertech floor mats. Getting antsy for some warm spring weather so I can buff and polish the paint. Waiting on delivery of the JDM tails from a certain forum member (hi Zeus!) The 4EAT shifts a little rough from 1-2, which I hear is normal, and sometimes under moderate throttle it shifts a little slow from 3-4 (getting on the freeway, etc.). At some point I will be doing a drain-and-fill with some Redline ATF. Seems the reading on the ATF dipstick is somewhat high, even when the tranny is nice and warm. Tranny fluid was regularly serviced by the dealer with the original owners, so I'm not too worried about it yet. Pretty happy with the brake upgrades. We've gotten used to the "pedal feel" I was wondering about a few posts back. you didnt paint your new calipers.. fool!!!.. my remanufacterd calipers turned orange in 2 weeks!!!! i had to take them off and paint them. Lookatmyrust was absolutely right here... the remanned calipers - even though they were pre-painted by the remanufacturer - are starting to cosmetically rust up. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 arent you planning on the 5spd swap in the near future? You must document the brake swap if you do them much like this tread. BTW how is everything on the LGT going camron? There is a lot of I have planned. I need to get these STI mounts installed but cannot find anyone local on any forums to respond to give me some assistance on installing them. Not feeling like I want to crush my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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