fixem2r Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Car has 77k miles and looks like I need to replace my passenger ball joint. Looking at either an OEM spec ball joint for both sides or the Whiteline ROCK kit. Car has the below suspension goodies currently: ION Performance springs Koni Yellow struts Super pro offset lower control arm bushings Progress 22mm RSB with reinforcement mounts Looking to get a 22-24mm FSB, Steering rack bushings and any other front bushings to replace the worn OEM bushings. Please take a look at the Poll and vote and provide feedback if you have experiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixem2r Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Looks like we are even on the Poll. Anyone want to share there experiances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 haven't put one on my car yet, but it's on my short list. A friend put the RCK on his Evo and it made a nice improvement for handling, particularly on corner exit. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyS Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I have the Whiteline roll center kit. I had it installed after getting Swift springs on Tokico shocks. After that, I could make sharper turns and faster speeds in autocrosses that I could have never done before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Go to Whitelines website they have a great explanation of how lowering the car changes the roll center. I don't have them so I did not poll, but lots of guys on here who Auto-X love the kit. I have installed a few and they seem to be of good quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixem2r Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks guys, I have been on the fence with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimsleeper Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've been through a few sets of these so I'll add my .02.. The benefit you'll gain from a kit like this will depend on the existing suspension mods. I don't know if you'll see much improvement on a stock setup, but if you're lowered more than a couple inches imho some kind of geometry correction should be mandatory. With coilovers I noticed a drastic difference, most apparent when cornering at the limit - where the nose would always eventually push to the point of losing traction - it now pulled itself through allowing for faster and more stable corner entry/exit. Tire noise also became noticeably quieter at the same speeds which reconfirmed the added grip. During daily driving it added a very nice firmness to the steering - giving it more of a point-and-shoot feel with less steering input required. Of course the flip side is the added strain that's being put on the joints themselves means these will probably need to be considered a yearly maintenance item, depending on drop height, road conditions etc. Between heavy track use and shitty CT roads I've gone through a couple sets of these in a year. In normal DD conditions you might be able to squeeze out close to the same mileage as the OEM tie rods/bj, but again it's a wear item and a lot of people have a hard time justifying the $$$ multiplied over the life of the car. My personal experience has been that the tie rod end tends to wear out before the ball joint, but afaik Whiteline only sells them as a set. As long as you realize that the cost for this upgrade isn't just the entry fee, you'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixem2r Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Appreciate the info. Car is lowered about an inch on Koni Yellows with ION sport springs. With 78k on the clock, if they last half as long as OEM, I will be impressed. (With the way I drive that is under 2 years!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've been through a few sets of these so I'll add my .02.. The benefit you'll gain from a kit like this will depend on the existing suspension mods. I don't know if you'll see much improvement on a stock setup, but if you're lowered more than a couple inches imho some kind of geometry correction should be mandatory. With coilovers I noticed a drastic difference, most apparent when cornering at the limit - where the nose would always eventually push to the point of losing traction - it now pulled itself through allowing for faster and more stable corner entry/exit. Tire noise also became noticeably quieter at the same speeds which reconfirmed the added grip. During daily driving it added a very nice firmness to the steering - giving it more of a point-and-shoot feel with less steering input required. Of course the flip side is the added strain that's being put on the joints themselves means these will probably need to be considered a yearly maintenance item, depending on drop height, road conditions etc. Between heavy track use and shitty CT roads I've gone through a couple sets of these in a year. In normal DD conditions you might be able to squeeze out close to the same mileage as the OEM tie rods/bj, but again it's a wear item and a lot of people have a hard time justifying the $$$ multiplied over the life of the car. My personal experience has been that the tie rod end tends to wear out before the ball joint, but afaik Whiteline only sells them as a set. As long as you realize that the cost for this upgrade isn't just the entry fee, you'll be happy. I put in the RCK 3 years ago. No problems. The caster change does not really impact wear. The change in RC allows the Tie rod end to be straight, instead on tilted. That should reduce wear, if the car is lowered. "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimsleeper Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I see no reason they shouldn't last 50k+ miles reasonably driven. Also for the record I didn't replace mine due to failure or any major issues, but the joints did loosen up enough where that initial tight feeling in the wheel had worn down considerably. As with everything your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseenlo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 This is all good info guys. Keep them coming. I want to finish up all my suspension pieces. Just installed the WL lateral camber/toe links, AVO lower arm braces, and RCE Tarmacs 6k all around. I'm hoping the RCK will really buttons everything down better with the lowered suspension. I bought the RCK a while back but haven't had the time to install it. How hard would the install be if I wanted to do it all by myself. I've read horror stories of how difficult the ball joints are to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burock Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Removing the ball joints is a horror story for anyone who lives in the snow/ salt states, ie- NY/NJ/PA, New England. I bought a tool called "Snipers Ball tugger" which worked beautifully- found out about it in a NASIOC site search. Without that tool, I was stuck and I only got one side out by about 3 mm in about 6 hours of trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseenlo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hmm..I was just looking at that. I think I might just buy the tool. If you say it worked beautifully, then I'll take your word for it and spend the $45 on it. How hard was it to install the new ball joint? I'm guessing I should sand it out real good and give it a couple taps with a rubber mallet and make sure it seats properly. Moving over to the tie rod, do you think I'll need a Pitman Arm Puller/Extractor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I am very happy with how my lowered LGT has responded to this kit. I find it gave me definate improved steering feel. 1 finger gap in all 4 wheel wells. EDIT: improved steering feel = car feels more responsive, wheel is easier to turn and point. Not night and day but definately an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseenlo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 LALGT, thanks for the input. Yep, I'm also at 1 finger gap all around too. I'm going to order the tool that Burock suggested any maybe rent the puller from Pepboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixem2r Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 I tried to get the pinch bolt out when working on the CV shaft and it would not budge! GOing to have a friend play with it since, my impact wrench wasn't doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I tried to get the pinch bolt out when working on the CV shaft and it would not budge! GOing to have a friend play with it since, my impact wrench wasn't doing it! You do NOT need to remove the pinch bold, and removing it will not help the removal of the tie rod end. Be very careful. The carrier is cast iron and once the pinch bolt is loose, there is NO additional flex that can be had in the mount. DO NOT pry ANYWHERE around the pinch legs! . It can be easily broken hitting or prying on it. Use a puller. "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixem2r Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Please explain further. Everything I have read says to remove the pinch bolt to pull the balljoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Please explain further. Everything I have read says to remove the pinch bolt to pull the balljoint. Perhaps I should have been more precise. The pinch bolt must be loosened, but if the bold it stuck in the bore (you got the nut off,right?) it is not a problem. The pinch bolt (because this is a cast iron carrier) doesn't really do anything other than make up for a thousandth or 2 of the accuracy in the bore of the carrier or taper of the B joint. Trying to drive a badly rusted bolt out of the carrier can end up breaking one of the pinch legs. So, if you can back out the nut, and at least turn the bold head, you are good to go and use a puller. "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimsleeper Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Perhaps I should have been more precise. The pinch bolt must be loosened, but if the bold it stuck in the bore (you got the nut off,right?) it is not a problem. The pinch bolt (because this is a cast iron carrier) doesn't really do anything other than make up for a thousandth or 2 of the accuracy in the bore of the carrier or taper of the B joint. Trying to drive a badly rusted bolt out of the carrier can end up breaking one of the pinch legs. So, if you can back out the nut, and at least turn the bold head, you are good to go and use a puller. That "thousandth or 2" of tolerance is enough to keep the bj secure in the bore, if you're able to remove the bj without backing out the pinch bolt you've got another problem on your hands... People end up breaking the legs from prying on the crack, I can't see how torquing on the bolthead is going to break anything but possibly the bolt itself. I did a writeup here a while ago on removing the ball joint, may seem a bit unorthodox but it's worked for me every time without fail. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/separating-lca-ball-joint-tie-rod-knuckle-medieval-style-113347.html?t=113347&highlight=ball+joint+medieval PB Blaster is your friend. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Perhaps I should have been more precise. The pinch bolt must be loosened, but if the bold it stuck in the bore (you got the nut off,right?) it is not a problem. The pinch bolt (because this is a cast iron carrier) doesn't really do anything other than make up for a thousandth or 2 of the accuracy in the bore of the carrier or taper of the B joint. Trying to drive a badly rusted bolt out of the carrier can end up breaking one of the pinch legs. So, if you can back out the nut, and at least turn the bold head, you are good to go and use a puller. no, you can't get the ball joint out without completely removing the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 no, you can't get the ball joint out without completely removing the bolt. Mea Culpa. I wasn't drinking when I posted that, so My only excuse is that it was a long time ago when I changed the joints. For all I know, I was thinking of a different car. Incipient Alzheimer's???? Just call me the idiot of the day. "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixem2r Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 That is my whole issue, the darn bolt won't come off!! Stupid rust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorbykemike Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 i have used roll center kits or parts to modify roll center on a few cars , when i saw this was available for the leggy it was a no brainer , it works . i neversiezed everything upon reinstall , i'm sure if i have to replace a part or 1/2 shaft later i will be thhanking myself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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