Should I get a Legacy GT Ltd or a G35?

[SubaruDeac]

First post here. I've been lurking a while. This is now the second site I hit after checking the Wake Forest message board. I am in the market for a new car. I currently drive a '98 Audi A4 1.8T quattro. My car before that was a '92 Legacy wagon. The car I drove before that (my parents car, not mine) was a Civic wagon w/AWD. I've never had a car w/o all wheel drive. So, the cars I'm looking at now include the Legacyand an Infinity G35 with the WRX and the Saabaru WRX as possible but unlikely. If cost were no object, including repair costs, an S4 is the dream car. I test drove one this weekend and it is the best car I've ever driven. But, like most people, cost is a very real constraint. I test drove an STi, and it's just too much! I can't imagine running out in to pick up some milk or being stuck in stop and go traffic in an STi. So, a few thoughts about the Legacy GT LTD. 1) I've only test driven the wagon (my local dealer doesn't have any 5mt sedans yet, so I test drove the 5mt wagon), and I wasn't crazy about the feel of the transmission. I wish I could explain this better. Maybe I'll like the short throw a little more. Also, less power than I thought there would be accelerating from say 45-65. Maybe I don't know the car well enough or maybe a hot NC day isn't a fair test for performance--hot air keeps the AC and intercooler working overtime. On the plus side, the Legacy has the closest ride to the S4 of any of the other cars I'm considering. 2) I really want HID headlights. My wife has them on her TSX, and I really believe they are a powerful safety feature for driving at night, especially if you live near deer crossings like we do. Is it possible to legally upgrade to HIDs via aftermarket? 3) Stereo. Not that big a deal, I can always upgrade on my own, but I wish Subaru would just ship with the McIntosh and top of the line speakers. Many feel that Bose is overpriced piece of junk, but the system in my A4 is great. Really clear articulation and good separation. I'm not looking for bass that rattles the neighbors, but clear and detailed reproduction of the music I listen to. 4) No fold down rear seats. Why would you do that Subaru? From reading the board, I know some of these are the same issues are having. I really liked the G35, but I am quite nervous about safety in a RWD car, especially in moderate to heavy rain (I know snow is impossible, so it somewhat ceases to be an issue). I'm guessing many on this board have gone through a similar decision making process, and I'm curious what people's thoughts may be--especially those with more experience in the real world differences between RWD and AWD. (I only want a manual, so the G35x is out.) Thanks in advance. I've been really impressed with the good feedback people have given on this board and hope I'm lucky enough to get some as well.

[7stars]

No, it's not possible to legally upgrade to HID on any car that doesn't come stock with it. However, the Legacy in Japan has HID, so you may be able to get away with it by explaining that you special ordered the Japanese model headlamps through Subaru. I agree with you on Bose. I had a SL500 that I was reselling, which had a Bose, and that was the absolute best system I've ever heard in a car, even better than any aftermarket stuff. About acceleration...if you were in high gear at 45, that's the problem. You have to downshift in order to get the rpm's high enough for the turbo to spool.

[gtguy]

My suggestion, if you can already afford the G35, is to go a bit farther and get the G35X, the AWD version, if it is offered in the mode that you like. Last I heard, as you already know, the AWD wasn't available in manual, but I thought that Infiniti was going to add that to the lineup. The G35X has all the things you want. Pursuant to your questions, 7stars is right on the lighting tip. You can significantly improve the stock lighting by adding a premium bulb such as a Philips VisionPlus. The GT takes H7. Transmission feel is an odd thing. Some people like it smooth, others like it notchy. Reviews will vary based on that like or dislike. The STi short shifter usually adds something of a mechanical feel, which can be further enhanced with firmer shifter bushings. The wagon has fold-down rear seats. :D You can certainly upgrade the system to one more to your tastes, but you're right in that there is nothing like a properly-designed in-car system. I wonder how much thought Subaru puts into their audio systems. I've always found them enjoyable, but I'm admittedly more dismissive of high-quality sound in a car than many others. Double-check that G35X with an MT thing, though. Infiniti would be crazy not to offer that car, IMHO. Kevin

[brady_bunch]

I was looking at the G35. I actually looked at many cars and it came down to the GT and the G35. I chose the GT over the G35 for a number of reasons but mostly the roughly $7000 difference between the G35 with all the goodies on it vs the GT with all the goodies on it. A couple of biggies were exterior styling (the G35 didn't give me a warm fuzzy in exterior styling), interior ergonomics (the G35 controls didn't fall where I would expect them to although in the GT the everything was right where my fingers wanted them to be), mod-ability (as was mentioned in another thread, the GT seemed to be a better "canvas" on which many seem to feel they can best express themselves). Just my $0.02.

[Ken S]

The G35 is a close competitor -- I've also cross shopped the two as well. It's a nice vehicle with a great engine. The 3.5L NA pulls very smoothly. But for me it also came down to styling and price. Interestingly, I hated the G35 clutch. It was to on/off and difficult to modulate. Too traffic-unfriendly for me. The G35 does have VSP so you would have some help in snow. Ken

[brady_bunch]

[quote name='Ken S']Interestingly, I hated the G35 clutch. It was to on/off and difficult to modulate. Too traffic-unfriendly for me.[/quote] How about the brakes? Were the brakes in your tested G35 super sensitive? They were in my test car. :(

[QToo]

SubaruDeac, I am having the exact same quandary regarding going with the GT or the G35. I have had 2 G35's out for test drives in the past year and just took a 5sp. GT out for a test. (A little background to give some oomph to my comments. I have done a 3 day Skip Barber course and also some lapping days, and have autocrossed by current car. Certainly not a pro by any stretch of the imagination but definitely attuned to higher performance driving.) On my new car, I am looking for rear or all wheel drive after living with WRD for too long. Have to have a manual so the G35X is out and I have not heard anything regarding the X offering a manual. AWD is not a must in my book even though I live in the snowy climes. A RWD car with traction control and a good set of snows is perfectly fine for my abilities. ADAVANTAGE - personal preference On the lighting front, I would put higher wattage bulbs into the GT which will give bright enough candlepower to almost match HID's. "Off-Road" use 100 W high beams give plenty of light to see everything that is necessary. Never saw the need for lighting up the night so I can see every zit in the road. HID is also causing quite a bit of theft problems in higher crime locales and the New Jersey AG has filed a lawsuit against Nissan/Infiniti because they didn't warn consumers soon enough, not to buy their cars with high HID theft rates. (WHAT??????) ADAVANTAGE - personal preference For the stereo, I was disappointed with the GT setup. As mentioned elsewhere, the system is designed to be bassy but the speakers can't hold the notes. A speaker upgrade would be the first step and would probably solve most of the problems. I would plan to install my current Boston Acoustic speakers into the stock slots. The Bose in the Infiniti was much better overall but it is a $900 option. The same amount added to the GT would probably get you on par, but how much work. Advantage - Infiniti Power - I was very surprised by the drivability of the GT during my test drive. Because it was brand new (5 miles) and the color combo was appealing, I didn't want to beat the **** out of it just in case the deal was to my liking. Even keeping it under 4500 rpm's, the car was plenty quick and really had a nice push at highway speeds in 5th gear. No need to downshift. Not sure about the comments related to lack of power below 2500 rpm's. It did take a second to build boost but the response was fairly immediate and linear. The exhaust note was pretty tame and ordinary sounding. I don't need rice but a little WRX burble would be nice. The G35 has similar power levels and the delivery is better off the line. The mid level punch is not as strong as the GT. The power doesn't seem to build as fast. The sound is much better and sporty sounding. Might be the dual stage muffler that it has. Overall, I think the GT would be just as quick and probably a better auto-cross car due to the mid range boost. Advantage - haven't made up my mind yet Transmission - The GT has very long throws and I kept thinking that my hand was going to hit the e-brake, which should have been flush with the console. (though this does give more of the sports car (240Z really ) feel to the interior). The clutch had very nice take-up and engaged smoothly. The shifts were uneventful and I REALLY like the flywheel keeping revs up for smoother downshifts/heel-toe. Can't remember if the G35 keeps the revs up or not, but the shifter was notchier and not as precise. There have been reports of transmission problems/failures in the G35. I am biased though, coming from an Acura tranny with ultra direct and precise throws. Advantage - GT Interior - The GT has very nice interior appointments. The layout is logical and straightforward. The controls have a slick and solid feel to them and the leather is very nice on the Ltd level. The seats were comfortable and supportive, though I would have more bolstering if it was my choice. The G35 has more of a cobbled together feel with lower rent plastics and materials. The layout is also taken exclusively from the Japanese model so the controls are the "wrong" side. The seats have an unusual seat control placement on the inside edge which has caused an alarming rate of complaints for leg pain for which Infiniti has issued a TSB to an inconclusive fix. I had the feeling of seating ON the seat rather than IN the seat. The G35 interior is still very nice but.... Advantage - GT Quality/Reliability - The GT is new so no data yet, but Subaru has a pretty good reputation for mechanical reliability. Not sure about the rest of the car because their JDP scores are mid pack so I am not sure where that comes in. Infiniti has very high JDP scores, but I have heard many complaints about the seats (see above), transmission and brake problems. The brake problems are related to pre-mature wear on the pads AND rotors. This had led Infiniti to offer replacement and/or reimbursement for these components up to 36,000. Advantage - Infiniti Overall - I will also be throwing the std GT into the mix versus the Ltd and the G35. Haven’t had a chance to sit in one yet, but did get a chance to sit in a cloth Outback. The seats seemed a little grippier and snug than the leather Ltd. I also don't have to have a sunroof. Now that the 2 zone climate is on the GT, the only upgrades you get for the Ltd is the roof and leather. I could get an extra 2 inches of headroom and $2,000 for mods.

[SubaruDeac]

First, on a totally separate point: I absoultely love the feature on these boards that you can scan all the posts in the thread (or at least current page of thread) when making a reply. The Wake Forest sports board I post to only shows the post immediately prior to yours. Kudos to whoever did that. Thanks everyone for the great feedback. It is nice to know others are going through the same questions. I think at this point I'm leaning to the GT. I think I actually like the exterior styling of the G35 better than GT. On the interior, the Subaru clearly wins. The Infiniti is not, in my opinion, as bad as many make it sound, but it just seems gimmicky. The seat controls are a good example. In ten years, either everyone will be doing it or this era if Infinitis will look foolish. The instrument cluster that moves with steering wheel is another thing, while a good idea, that just seems gimmicky. Another complicating factor is my decision is that I'm about to finish my PhD and get a job as a college professor. The good news--in my field I'll get a job. The bad news--I have no idea where. I could be in Maine, or I could in Southern California or anywhere in between. So, I don't know exactly how often I'll be driving through bad weather after the next year in North Carolina. If I end up in New England, I'll definitely want the AWD. I went to college in Maine, and there were many times I was incredibly thankful for my AWD Subie Wagon. I talked to a friend of mine who does RallyX (he put an H6 engine into an Impreza body), and he said there are aftermarket items that can help me get the feel I'm looking for in the clutch. He actually said more specific things than that, but it went over my head. The more I think about, the more I'm not willing to compromise on the AWD. But I seem to change my mind hourly, each time with more conviction than the last, only to change my mind again an hour later. If I do the Legacy, I think it would be Regal Blue w/Charcoal interior.

[SubaruDeac]

The dreaded double post.

[apexjapan]

Ok, some diet coke caffeine jazzing up the system, time to post comments for once. I'll refrain from talking about the G35, other than I was less than impressed with it after a day in Hakone with one. Things that may help with the decision making process - Transmission: it feels much better past the 3000 mile mark. Shifts into gear much more smoothly, less notchiness, and feels more precise. While a short throw shifter would be appreciated, it still feels quite good, and the placement is ideal for spirited mountain driving. I've since had a set of transmission mount bushings installed, and they've tightened it up quite a bit as well. Relatively cheap (no, make that non-relatively cheap) and easy to install, they should make all the racer types happy. Power: Not as strong when it's tight. Also very, very deceptive in it's takeup. I noticed this way back with the first '93 on twin turbo's. I had a 96 twin turbo, and it never felt that fast. Drove a Mitsubishi turbo once back to back, and it felt much faster. Then I drove against the Mitsu - and walked all over it. Subaru has possibly taken refinement too far with the latest Legacy, enough that you don't "feel" the power. It comes in so smooth and (relatively) linear, without the big turbo bang, that you don't feel as if it's that strong. Line it up next to something else, though, and the effect can be quite dramatic. OTOH, if you pump up the power in the midrange to around the 300+ mark, you'll feel it plenty well then... Exhaust: I hate to say it, but Subaru went too far with it, it *is* far too quiet. The AVO mufflers I have on right now are *still* quiet, but at least make berrooooooooom, especially when feathering it off the line, that it matches the amount of noise the engine makes. I do enjoy it most of the time in a quiet, relaxing sort of way, but I admit to the desire to put a 3" gutter pipe all the way back on occasion. Now, back to the G35 vs. Legacy. For sheer point to point driving in *any* condition, from utterly beautiful dry weather to snow, ice, and mud, the Legacy simply stomps all over the G35. The only advantages I can think of for the G35 is that you can possibly hang the tail out better in wild drift maneouvers, and that you can lay down rubber easily when racing from stoplight to stoplight. Cheers, Paul Hansen

[brady_bunch]

Hey, Deac, do you want to discuss mechanicals, financials, or intangibles? Just so I offer comments that will meet your need for input.

[SubaruDeac]

Brady--I'm most interested in mechanicals and intangibles. While, of course, all things being equal I'd prefer to pay less the two cars are both within my price range, so cost won't be the deciding factor. When thinking about financials, I'm interested in what people can do a Legacy with extra money, as I'm totally new to the modification game, apart from tires and stereo. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the GT is the way to go. Too bad whatever dealer I use won't share commission with you all.

[RSPDiver]

Deac, I'm still in the same boat as you. To me, the single biggest detractor of the Legacy is the exterior styling; I have a hard time not seeing it as a turbo AWD Camry/Taurus. But, I have yet to test drive one, so I may be blown away yet. Other than that, the gas mileage isn't quite as good (though close), the aftermarket isn't there yet, and I don't *need* AWD except for at the stoplights. :D I do, however, REALLY like the gauge cluster, price, and mod-ability of a turbo motor. Insurance is close on both, so that's a wash. If they had a metallic charcoal-ish color (like Infiniti's Diamond Graphite), more points would go to the L-GT.