Wouldn't GT components on a 2.5i be cheap?

[FLlegacy]

I dont know what car your driving but my stock GT handled like crap. You must have a vastly different idea of what good handling is.

 

We are talking 2.5i not LGT and with respect to other 4door sedans on the market it can hold its own in the twists. Idk what you drove before the LGT that made you think it handled like crap. I dont recall reading too many posts about how crappy the Legacy's handling is on this forum. It's not the greatest but it's certainly not crappy especially when compared to similarly priced cars.

[burnout8488]

Could have been the tires. I put a set of Yokohama Avids on my car and the handling improved dramatically. As far as 4 door sedans go, the Legacy is one of the best IMO as far as handling. Pretty sure the rear suspension is a very unique design in the way that the links change the geometry as the spring is compressed.

[scoobydoobie]

The stock LGT brakes are actually the second biggest factory brakes that SOA offers on their cars (second behind the Brembos on the STI). This is why lots of WRX/FXT/RS owners seek out factory LGT calipers and rotors for a cheap and noticeable upgrade. They are a good bit bigger than 2.5i brakes for sure.

[TSiWRX]

FLlegacy and burnout8488:

 

I've been here not since day one, but I've been here for a while - and believe me, handling upgrades in terms of tires, wheels, braking, and suspension are among the first things that many LGT owners pursue, and the complaints arising from each of those factors are numerous, noted within their specific sub-Forums here.

 

I'm hesitant to be as negative as toreadorranger, but it is, sadly, a truth that not only bears out from searching the history of the Forums here, but also via a look at popular literature of the time. Virtually every popular automotive magazine commended the turbocharged BL's straight-line zoot. But at the same time, there were noted less-than-stellar commentary about its chassis control.

[FLlegacy]

TSI+WRX, that was exactly my point the 2,5i was trying to be made out to as the bottom tier handling car when it is in no worse than the LGT, with minimal upgrades (tires, aftermarket links and bushings). Without the additional power it can hold its own pretty well, obviously more power will push it's handling limits. But we aren't even discussing stock LGT power levels we are talking 200-225 hp.

 

Regardless of anyone's negative views on this matter, I would imagine I am not the only one that would like to see this project take hold and get done. Like a lot of other people out there I don't have a few thousand dollars to put toward a trade-in on a used lgt. So any project such as this definitely has my attention.

[TSiWRX]

TSI+WRX, that was exactly my point the 2,5i was trying to be made out to as the bottom tier handling car when it is in no worse than the LGT, with minimal upgrades (tires, aftermarket links and bushings). Without the additional power it can hold its own pretty well, obviously more power will push it's handling limits. But we aren't even discussing stock LGT power levels we are talking 200-225 hp.

 

^ Ah, now I see where you're going with that.

 

Regardless of anyone's negative views on this matter, I would imagine I am not the only one that would like to see this project take hold and get done. Like a lot of other people out there I don't have a few thousand dollars to put toward a trade-in on a used lgt. So any project such as this definitely has my attention.

 

I think that the negativity has got to go: it really caps any sort of venture into projects like this, which, given the age of the BL/BP platform, should be taking place.

 

While I'm among those who truly and firmly believe that, "if you wanted to go FI, why didn't you buy the FI-variant in the first place," I also strongly believe that as a hobby/enthusiast community, there's definitely room for user-projects, too.

 

It's this kind of bigger stuff that makes the entire genre more fun.

[apexjapan]

The main reason the magazine community complains about the bp/bl chassis handling is actually fairly simple - the drivetrain itself is so capable, they just wished the suspension would complement it. So to turn that around, they'd say that, for instance, a Corolla handles fairly well *relative* to the drivetrain and the car it is. The point is, if the Legacy drivetrain was as pedestrian as the Camry/Accord/anydomestic, they probably would not have complained as much towards the handling.

 

I'll be honest, my business wouldn't have half the suspension business it does if Subaru did get their job right, but I still wish they'd get at least closer to what it is capable of. Even a 2.5i with some good suspension/bushing upgrades is a force to be reckoned with in the twisties.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[TSiWRX]

^ Exactly - well said.

[FLlegacy]

The main reason the magazine community complains about the bp/bl chassis handling is actually fairly simple - the drivetrain itself is so capable, they just wished the suspension would complement it. So to turn that around, they'd say that, for instance, a Corolla handles fairly well *relative* to the drivetrain and the car it is. The point is, if the Legacy drivetrain was as pedestrian as the Camry/Accord/anydomestic, they probably would not have complained as much towards the handling.

 

I'll be honest, my business wouldn't have half the suspension business it does if Subaru did get their job right, but I still wish they'd get at least closer to what it is capable of. Even a 2.5i with some good suspension/bushing upgrades is a force to be reckoned with in the twisties.

 

That mirrors my thoughts exactly, although keeping the cost of the vehicle in mind you are still getting a great deal no matter which trim line you choose.

[CTATV]

So brake pad swap and we are good to go? If you have ever driven a 2.5i you would know that the braking is excellent, and the handling is fairly good as well. I don't see why I would want to go farther into those things before I knew what I could get out of the engine. You can always adjust your foot to what the car can handle and if you can't then you shouldn't be driving period.

 

But we are still just discussing a theoretical DIY turbo job, no harm in that, talking isn't going to make a car faster or more powerful... if only it could...lol

 

edit: mushy pedal must be something with the older subies mine is pretty firm and if i really press it my car stops quick, fast, and in hurry. I have 48k on the stock pads and rotors. The yokohamas are long gone though.

 

I can understand upgrading the chassis but honestly straight line acceleration is where the 2.5i needs help it gets around corners as good as anything in its class, but at the stop light it gets eaten up by anything more substantial than a geo metro... ok not that bad but close.

 

I was happy with my LGT stock brake setup but when the pads wore out I got the Hawk HPS pads and stoptech steel braided brake lines and after switching I wouldnt go back... Noticeable difference, especially when you get them heated up.

 

and to your point, if you think the 2.5i handles good around the corners you drive slow around the corners anyhow (not trying to be standoffish im just saying). I have a spec.b which came on bilstiens and I still needed the upgrade to the coilovers. Im not saying on a 2.5i coils are what you need but maybe something like sways or finding a set of bilstiens for sale and doing sway bars WILL make a big difference.

 

EDIT:

 

im also not saying people shouldnt go ahead and try this turbo swap idea I am just saying you might want to think about the handling first, and then the trubo swap after...

[bmx045]

Handling mods are relatively inexpensive in terms of the price-to-fun factor. Once I did the sway bars on my 2.5i, it's SO much more fun to drive, even as a DD. I now have 18's and some kumho's and NOW it sticks to the road. I'm searching for inexpensive strut upgrades, maybe bilstein hd handme downs.

[FLlegacy]

and to your point, if you think the 2.5i handles good around the corners you drive slow around the corners anyhow (not trying to be standoffish im just saying). I have a spec.b which came on bilstiens and I still needed the upgrade to the coilovers. Im not saying on a 2.5i coils are what you need but maybe something like sways or finding a set of bilstiens for sale and doing sway bars WILL make a big difference.

 

My point seems to keep flying right over your head like a boeing over a flea, but whatever. I will say it as clearly as I can, I am happy with how my car handles corners thus far, I dont autocross, or go to road courses or anything like that. My car is a daily driver and as such the only department in which it seriously lacks in my opinion is power. I have never had an occasion to race anyone around a corner but compared to other sedans on the roads I drive on (like accords, camry's, civics) it drives just as well if not better through the curves. I would compare to say a Legacy Spec B but there aren't any probably in this whole county, I can count on one hand the number of Legacys I have seen in the nearly 4 years I have owned mine. So if you can pull your eyes open and read I am not comparing my car to a LGT or Spec B stock or otherwise.

[bmx045]

So if power is all your going for, and want to go for, then investigate tuning options on 93 octane, AVO panel filter, and if your really into it you can investigate more options on www.rallitek.com in terms of engine mods.

[burnout8488]

My dads Highlander has 268hp, smokes my legacy, but handles like complete s**t. If my legacy was that fast I'd be very happy.

 

The 2.5i is a more than capable platform for an extra 40hp. Cars are produced every day that are faster but handle worse. I'm sure the new Camry SE V6 probably handles worse too, but its got the same 268hp as the SUV. The power is already there for the people that wish to improve on its handling.

 

I want passing power, I want straight line speed. Being able to do WOT out of a corner isnt my main concern right now, even though I'm sure I could handle it, and I'm very confident this chassis has the ability to accept another handful of horsepower in stock suspension form.

[TSiWRX]

I want passing power, I want straight line speed.

 

You know I'm all for this project.

 

And in-turn, I know that you and the other N/A participants here are well-grounded in terms of what kind of power/acceleration you're looking to expect.

 

But with that above, I just wanted to be sure that people - particularly newcomers to this community - well understands that with the type of efforts looked-at, here, that within the context and construct of this particular set of thought-of modifications, that the vehicle will not be a tuner-sleeper.

 

Will/can it achieve straight-line performance to match the mainstream everyday family-sedans in its price/size class?

 

I think so.

 

But in today's world, where sub-6-second and even sub-5-second performance sedans are the norm - a world in which a typical "Stage II" factory force-induced BL/BP is no longer really considered all that fast or quick - one should not expect expect miracles.

[FLlegacy]

Thank you burnout! I knew I couldn't be the only one missing the being thrust into my seat when I mash the pedal. BMX I only run 93 octane from chevron I am picky like that and my car loves me for it, but how much would a tune like that cost and as I mentioned in an earlier post I haven't the foggiest Idea where to get one without dropping hundreds on an AP. There may be a good shop in Orlando or Tampa but I don't know maybe another southerner will chime in, not that I won't be searching. Unfortunately I got a K&N filter panel before I knew better, the avo is a dry filter right? When the time comes to re-oil I will clean it and ebay it for the AVO.

 

 

Edit: found a shop in Orlando with an awd dyno says they work on all types of imports, dyno pulls $75 for three baseline pulls, $125 for a dyno tuning session. Not bad I think, but anyone hear of Central Florida Turbo? May have to go down there and chat with these guys and see what they can do.

[burnout8488]

I've got a VAG-COM cable on order right now so for the time being I can tune my N/A. PhatBotti Tuning on NASIOC is doing the service. However, this also means if I (or anyone else) ever goes F/I on the 2.5i, the ability to tune that is ALSO there.

 

 

IanB started a thread regarding this in the Tuning section of this forum, check it out! We're looking to get a group buy going of tunes so we can get the price down from $150 to about $100 hopefully.

[bmx045]

My question is, will there be a noticable improvement with a 93 oct tune....for us folks.

[burnout8488]

I think its about 10hp if you have an intake... Maybe 15 if you have a full exhaust incl. headers and hiflow cats. Rallitek cylinder heads and cams will obviously produce the most gains though.

 

Drivability is one of the main improvements, I guess its just much more fun to drive after the tune. Drive by wire is altered as well as a little more low end power I think.

[bmx045]

10-15hp for ~$150 is a great idea. I'll order a vagcom cable on monday

[CTATV]

10-15hp for ~$150 is a great idea. I'll order a vagcom cable on monday

 

dont forget the intake and exhaust too

[bmx045]

Workin on it. I have an avo panel filter so far....

[FLlegacy]

You should be good on the intake with the avo panel filter, I don't think the stock intake is holding the engine back. A smoother flowing tube from the airbox to the throttle body couldn't hurt too much. You may loose a little low end but gain some top end.

[rweezy]

Interested to see how this all works out. Good Luck Burnout!

 

 

Subscribed.

[burnout8488]

Keep in mind I said that I might just collect parts over the course of a very long time, so this won't be happening annnny time soon

 

I had a thought: The AVO up-pipe for the 2.5RS turbo kits would eliminate the need for a new header and notching the subframe. The stock GT downpipe probably wouldn't work then. Getting the AVO downpipe from that kit would eliminate any costs savings probably... unless the stock GT DP DOES fit on a turbo mounted with the AVO UP.

 

Getting an UP custom made with stock GT flanges and the 2.5i header flange wouldn't be too hard probably, its just a foot or two of pipe.