Kevlar vs. Organic?

[RJS5689]

I realize I have been flooding the transmission section, but I want to make sure I do my job right. I'm struggling to decide between my final clutch setups. I cant decide if I want a Spec setup which would be running a Kevlar disc, or an ACT/Exedy setup which would run an organic disc.

 

I know the Kevlar is resistant to heat and grips well, but I also know if it is slipped too much and burnt, there is no recovering it. How much sleep is really needed to overheat a Kevlar clutch? I don't usually launch that hard, but now and then I will give it a good launch, especially if I am trying to jump ahead of a line of cars, or something similar. I do drive the car in Maine where I see lot's of snow in the winter (would this be problematic to the Kevlar?) I also spend time in New York in the summer dealing with traffic now and then. So I wasn't sure how much slipping a Kevlar clutch could take before it burns out. I also know they have a break-in period during which they can slip. I do engine break too, nothing crazy, but I'll rev-match up to about 3,500 sometimes. I really don't know if I should go Kevlar or organic.

 

For what it's worth, the set-ups I'm looking at are:

ACT SB4-HDSS: uses an organic clutch disc

Exedy Stage 1HD: uses an organic clutch disc

Spec Stage 2: uses a pure Kevlar friction material

Spec Stage 2+: uses Hybrid Kevlar and Carbon-Graphite Friction material

 

The vehicle is a protuned stage 2 Legacy Spec.B.

 

Thanks for the help.

[whitetiger]

any of those will do. organic as better engagement, but Kevlar has better hold and heat resistance.

[RJS5689]

any of those will do. organic as better engagement, but Kevlar has better hold and heat resistance.

That's what I was thinking, but how much slip is "too much" on a Kevlar clutch? Is one bad launch enough to mess it up for good? Maybe I'm just being overly paranoid.

[JBamin]

its damn near impossible to **** kevlar up, if it slips take it and media blast it and reinstall it. honda kids been using kevlar for a while now.

[RJS5689]

its damn near impossible to **** kevlar up, if it slips take it and media blast it and reinstall it. honda kids been using kevlar for a while now.

That's interesting. I wasn't sure how hard they are to mess up; all I know is once they are messed up, that's it, they're done. The Spec Stage 2+ kit is made up of a Kevlar/carbon-graphite mixture. Does this offer superior resistance over the full Kevlar disc, while still being designed for long life?

[JoeFromPA]

From what I understand, a really bad day in 30+ minutes of bumper to bumper traffic, inching along, and it can toast if you aren't gentle on it.

 

The main concern is not with a track event or some sort of DRIVING abuse....it's with heat accumulation and repeated slipping. This is my understanding.

[RJS5689]

From what I understand, a really bad day in 30+ minutes of bumper to bumper traffic, inching along, and it can toast if you aren't gentle on it.

 

The main concern is not with a track event or some sort of DRIVING abuse....it's with heat accumulation and repeated slipping. This is my understanding.

Oh great... When I'm at home in New York, I'll sometimes hot terrible traffic on the George Washington Bridge. I've noticed Kevlar described like this on some forums, " may glaze slightly in stop-and-go traffic, resulting in slippage until worn clean when used hard again. "

[Max Capacity]

I have one of the first Spec2+ and their LWFW, I have over 53,000 miles on this set up.

 

I have been in NYC on a Sunday night in traffic trying to get back to CT from NJ trying to get onto the Palisades Parkway in Aug, more then once. Just came back from central NJ 3 weeks ago, on a Sunday night sitting in traffic on the Tappenzee and also by the Palisades Mall, like always.

 

I ski every winter weekend in VT.

 

I have practiced launching by holding up the e-brake and slipping the clutch. My Spec2+ has seen all the abuse you guy's are talking about. It still grabs like it did when it was new.

I know I'm only at AP stage 1 with a Tuning Alliance tune running just over 16psi. But I'm happy with this clutch.

[JoeFromPA]

RJS - That's the thing. Abuse is the way to keep it from staying glazed. Hard grabs will keep it nice and grabby

[RJS5689]

RJS - That's the thing. Abuse is the way to keep it from staying glazed. Hard grabs will keep it nice and grabby

I hate transmissions! I've been reading facts and staring at numbers all day. I have a headache, haha:spin:.

 

I just found a really good deal on an ACT HDSS clutch with ACT Streetlite flywheel shipped to my door. It looks like it beats out the cheaper Spec setup I was looking at. I may need to jump on that offer.

 

Now I just need to find out if the Streetlite flywheel will throw a CEL. It weighs 15lbs instead of the typical 10-13 of other LWFWs.

[JBamin]

why would a flywheel throw a cell...

[RJS5689]

why would a flywheel throw a cell...

The crank position sensor is programmed to sense a certain amount of energy from the crank after every power stroke of each cylinder. Because of a light flywheel, the energy through the crank is different due to the difference in inertia, and it thinks that one or all of the cylinders is misfiring.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1602840.html

[bnguyenbb6]

You are WAY over thinking it...

[Max Capacity]

^ agree. It's easy. Call Spec, bit the bullet get there setup and you'll be happy for a long time. They overnighted mine to the dealer almost 4 years ago. Great customer service.

 

Here's my story. Late Jun 07, Monday at 10AM dealer calls and say's the flywheel needs to be replaced, it can not be turned, they know I gave them a Spec 2+ to install after they rebuild the tranny. They give me until 11:30 to find a flywheel or they will place there order for OEM. I called my son. He called Danny Smith at Spec (a friend from drag racing Honda's). They had not released the first LWFW yet, the first run was still being made. My son told them I needed one and what could they do ? a few minutes late my son get's a call, they have one of the proto types on someones desk. They clean it up, put in a box and it's at the dealership the next morning. I picked the car up after work.

[RJS5689]

I've decided to go with an ACT HDSS setup. I've had a few people steer me away from Spec with Spec horror stories, despite all of the good things I've heard. The HDSS has a high torque rating, it's made of organic material and comes as highly recommended. Not to mention I found a killer deal on the ACT clutch and flywheel shipped to my door. Thanks for all of the various input guys.

[Max Capacity]

Boy...with all the drama...you better come back and tell us how you like it.

 

Good Luck

 

Will you be doing the install yourself or having it done ?

[RJS5689]

Boy...with all the drama...you better come back and tell us how you like it.

 

Good Luck

 

Will you be doing the install yourself or having it done ?

I'm going to be having it done. I'm currently looking at a few places in the local area. I've gotten some good price quotes back.

 

I still keep toying with the idea of the Spec Kevlar clutch. I'm really one of those people who tries to think everything out to the max, planning every little potential detail. Hopefully I don't cause myself gray hair by the time I'm 30 . I probably shouldn't worry with the ACT though, it should be able to handle my Stage 2 set up?

[Max Capacity]

Gray hair before your 30...I'm 55 and have learned not to sweat the small stuff. There is good and bad in everything. IMO with clutch's it has a lot to do with the install. Make sure the Flywheel is degrease before the clutch ever kiss's it. I wipe mine down with acetone.

 

My 2+ does chatter every now and then but that's normal for a high performance clutch. It also makes a whine sometimes as I let the clutch out from a stop sign. But I have no doubt this thing is going to grab when I want it to.

 

If your at stage 2 your going to want a stout clutch in there. Spec is doing a lot of R&D with the 1000+ HP Honda guys. Not one of the high HP Honda's use a ACT clutch.