Considering a 2010 Legacy, would like some thoughts on engine choice

[PeteWK]

 

Again, face it. You bought performance over reliability/longevity. You can't have both. Not for the price you paid, not in a Subaru.

 

Sorry, I'm just not in your camp. Not at 265 hp. I wouldn't even waste money buying forged slugs if I were building the motor to these specs myself. If I were looking to tip 300 I would.

 

It just comes down to a good driver / owner. I've run into plenty of people here and in the world who have 200,000 miles on Turbo motors without a problem. If you want to race it you'll pay the price, but that's the case with any car.

[Guest]

Get back in 60-90k miles, we'll see what you have to say. Btw, we just learned today from a tuner here that Subaru put tons of torque limiting measures into the 2010 ECU, to apparently save the glass pistons and wonky drivetrain from blowing up.

 

I need yet to hear about 2.5L turbo Subaru motor that makes it to 200k miles. Maybe you'll be the first?

[cyniclaus]

[LegGTLT]

I think without data from CR (since that is the mearsuring stat we're using) this convo is going nowhere. However, N/A and Turbo blocks are SIGNIFICANTLY different as pointed out so taking N/A stats and using them for Turbo stats is just not a sound thing to do.

 

I own an '05 GT with 92k miles on it and I change the oil (regular nothing fancy) every 3k. Not a single problem here nor on my friends '05 LGT at 65k. So, just two cars but unclemat I will call you when it reaches 200k in another 5 years.

[MikeNH]

Well....

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/03NHSilvy/DSCF0012.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/03NHSilvy/DSCF0010.jpg

 

More/better pics tomorrow. These were with my cheapo camera I keep in the car, the good one was dead.

[AKLGT]

N/A motors are more reliable than turbo motors, period. If you think otherwise you're fooling yourself.

agreed 100%

 

and for anyone who buys a turbo LGT/STI/WRX if you weren't gonna push it a little or have fun every once in awhile, you would have bought the NA version.

 

I picked up my 2010 2.5i almost 3 weeks ago now and can say I love it. I like the new CVT transmission, very smooth and still has enough pep for daily driving. and the CR review for 08+ STI engine issues is completely WRONG! LOL. crap motor!

[AKLGT]

Well....

 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/03NHSilvy/DSCF0012.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/03NHSilvy/DSCF0010.jpg

 

More/better pics tomorrow. These were with my cheapo camera I keep in the car, the good one was dead.

congrats on the new car.

[MikeNH]

I love the damn thing already. Had all of 8 miles on it when I got it today. I've been taking it easy keeping RPMs down and such (and re-learning how to drive a stick, it's been over 3 years and I'm kinda rough now) but it is a bunch of fun to drive. It may be softer than previous models but coming from 4x4s that sat well over a foot off the ground this damn thing handles awesome. Can't wait for 1000 miles to hit.

[minuccims]

I love the damn thing already. Had all of 8 miles on it when I got it today. I've been taking it easy keeping RPMs down and such (and re-learning how to drive a stick, it's been over 3 years and I'm kinda rough now) but it is a bunch of fun to drive. It may be softer than previous models but coming from 4x4s that sat well over a foot off the ground this damn thing handles awesome. Can't wait for 1000 miles to hit.

 

Man, that was a difficult time. It's really tough to keep the RPMs down. I couldn't do it all the time. Service manager said it was OK if RPMs went above 4K. So, don't redline every shift. Additional advice was to not keep the RPMs up high for long periods. Enjoy the new ride.

[lethal.adv]

Congrats on the new LGT

 

Our family just picked up a 2.5i ltd. and we love it. Unfortunately, we didn't qualify for the 2.9% apr financing even with a high 700 credit score.

[sschmelcke]

yeah i had over a 700 credit score and they told me i qualified for tier 2 +. bullcrap if you ask me

[Volleyball]

i think they extended the 2.9 but tightened the qualifier as a marketing gimmic. we got ours just before the fwb ended

[sschmelcke]

i figured as much. although going down to 2.9 percent only drop the monthly payment like 6 bucks so i guess its no big deal

[LegGTLT]

yeah i had over a 700 credit score and they told me i qualified for tier 2 +. bullcrap if you ask me

I was wondering about this. I was surprised to see that 2.9% offered on all Legacys. What is their tier 2 rate at?

[sschmelcke]

5% or so. It wasn't horrible. Still 3 credit companys say I'm over 780 but they make some excuse that they use a different method.

[LegGTLT]

I hear ya. When I bought my '05 LGT I didn't qualify for the lower rate of 3.9% even though I owned my own home and had no credit card debt.

[PeteWK]

Get back in 60-90k miles, we'll see what you have to say. Btw, we just learned today from a tuner here that Subaru put tons of torque limiting measures into the 2010 ECU, to apparently save the glass pistons and wonky drivetrain from blowing up.

 

I need yet to hear about 2.5L turbo Subaru motor that makes it to 200k miles. Maybe you'll be the first?

 

 

 

Frankly I think you're simply wrong, from a manufacturing standpoint.

 

At the risk of sounding like an autogeek, it goes like this.

 

When I was a kid buying speedpro pistons for my 350 Olds motor (1986) I did what every good speed freak did, took them to be weighed. They varied by a few grams only. I chose them for their good reputation that way.

 

I had my machine shop guy hog out just enough to make them weigh the same. That was a long time ago in manufacturing years. These days the pistons are weighed when they come off the assembly line. They and virtually every internal engine part are for all intents and purposes, identical. I'll give up some variance for plastic moulds.

 

What you'll get is one engine after another after another after another that is about as perfectly identical as the one before it.

 

You might get a bad run every once in a while but generally problems come from poorly designed components such as the infamous banjo bold fiasco.

 

MAIN POINT - this leads us to my main point. There are lots of people who own the Turbo Subarus who get 200,000 miles plus without any problems at all. And then there are people who's turbos die at 60,000 or whatever. Gee, how can that be? There's one poor bastard in the Turbo forum here who blew out his tranny and said pretty much, "I baby the thing only taking it too the track 4 times a year". DING DING DING We have a winner!

 

I didn't buy my can to race it. I shift it at 2500 to 2800 rpm and commute 28 miles each way to work driving on the 710. Hence my Turbo isn't going to light up like a Christmas tree like the guy who runs it to 4000 or more.

 

Think about it. . . the same exact motors but different people getting different results. My statistics professor would have immediately gone to the VARIABLE. That means you and me and everyone else who owns one. We're all responsible for what our feet do on the pedal. And THAT'S what will determine how long we get out of our GT's.

 

Pete

[Guest]

Ah, so Subaru builds same exact motors now?

 

Until recently they had two sizes of pistons and like 3 sizes of main bearings....

 

2010 must be hand crafted to same exact specifications.... Turbo on it won't die.... it only gets broken in 200k miles mark.... New SpecB is born, even though it's not called as such.

 

And lots of people with 2.5L turbo Subarus with 200k miles?

 

Dude: I think you don't get it.

[PeteWK]

Reason over fear, you should try it.

 

I've got two friends who own companies in the Los Angeles area that supply manufacturing parts to the automotive industry, mainly drill bushings but other parts to order. I toured one of the plants before going out to lunch with my friend. He's retired now so his experience went back 50 years.

 

His main topic for discussion was tolerances. In the 50s, you could expect a large amount of slap in the pistons and internal engine parts that varied up to .060 inches. Today the companies won't accept a variance any more that a few thousandths.

 

Of course new advances in technology (CNC Machining) has made this a reality. As I said before, "for all intents and purposes" the parts are identical allowing for a "bad run every once in a while".

 

What happens when you get a bad run of crank shafts? Maybe they're off by .005 inches? You mill them to .010 and change the bearings. It happens and it's not a big deal. Doing that is a lot cheaper than hard chroming the part back up to specs and the wear rating is still maintained. That's what accounts for the parts variance.

 

And I think it's you who doesn't get it. We're not living in 1960 anymore.

 

Pete

[Guest]

No, really, you don't get it. It's not about tolerances that Subaru keeps pretty tight actually. It's about stringent emissions, cheap parts suppliers, borderline unsafe factory tunes. We're not in 1960s, we're in 2010s.

[rao]

[PeteWK]

No, really, you don't get it. It's not about tolerances that Subaru keeps pretty tight actually. It's about stringent emissions, cheap parts suppliers, borderline unsafe factory tunes. We're not in 1960s, we're in 2010s.

 

Uh, so you're saying they're putting out expensive to repair turbo problems that are waiting to happen so their profits can be eaten up with warranty repairs?

 

Didn't you notice the pdf file you sent me to? It had a one year problem blip and then back to a normal pattern.

 

What does that tell you? Engineers identifying a problem and fixing it. It's called risk management or more exactly loss management (A business practice that seeks to detect, identify, investigate and prevent events that cause a drop in value of any of an organization's revenues, assets and services. Loss-management improvements may involve changes in a business's operating policies and business model in order to limit instances of accidental and/or intentional loss - Forbes).

 

Do you REALLY think that Subaru is intent on reliving their 2005 mistake over and over again? It seems to me that you're just hating on Subaru because you own a lemon 2005 LGT. Don't take your frustrations out on the rest of us. Sell the piece of crap and get something else.

[krzyss]

There are lots of people who own the Turbo Subarus who get 200,000 miles plus without any problems at all.

 

I am not so sure that this is correct statement.

First WRXes might be getting to this milage but newer 2.5 liter turbos (with banjo filter in them) are something like 5-6 years old, at most.

There are not that many people driving 35-40K miles per year.

 

Krzys

[sschmelcke]

I had 120k on mine when I sold it. I can tell you it might have made it to 200k but it would have been hurting badly.

[fishbone]

unclemat, I respect your opinion but in this case you are making it sound like you have an axe to grind. Almost 80K miles here, of which 50k have been on aftermarket tunes/mods. I have knocked to hell and back and the car is running strong. The key is to never use Mobil 1. That is the true problem, not the turbo.