remote won't lock/unlock car, then works

[NK1964]

I forgot to tell you that, just like for the others here, the button cell battery seems to be perfectly fine.

 

When the key fob works, the range is amazing. On a flat and clear parking lot, I can click open or close my car at about a distance from where reading the licence plate number becomes difficult. Even standing inside my house behind double pane glass windows, I can click it shut while the car is standing far off on the driveway.

 

Also, I did take apart the fob and I could not find any dirt inside beyond a little lint on the very periphery of the casing. Nothing inside on the contact area, really. The battery is not loose or anything. The contact surfaces show no sign of wear whatsoever.

[bigpilague]

Hello NK1964!

I'm still pretty confident that the issue I'm seeing is temperature related. Of course that's not to say that you're not experiencing something else. Maybe you can answer these questions:

- Does your keyfob look exactly like this? If not we have different hardware so its likely not the same problem: http://www.cars101.com/subaru/Ob08keys1.JPG

- When your car won't unlock (or lock), do any of the other buttons on the fob work?

- When your wife's fob isn't working, does your fob work (or vice versa)?

 

The nice thing about a 'scientific' approach is that I have a test that will prove/disprove my theory. Willing to try this? (I'm assuming that your fob always works at home.)

- Place your fob in the fridge for 30 minutes.

- Take it out and immediately try to use it (while its still cold). Does it work?

- Assuming its not working when cold, place it on a heater or lamp for 5-10 minutes (or anything that will make it feel warm to the touch - BUT NOT MELT IT! )

- Take it off the heater and immediately try to use it. Does it work now?

 

If your fob works when this cold and its the same model of fob as mine, then I need a new theory. When I run the above test, no buttons work when the fob is cold, and all of the buttons work when the fob is warm.

[DonnyJagaru]

What I'd like to see is how far away you can be from your car and still have it unlock the doors. I got a bonafide 150ft range on mine one time.

[Laughter13]

I ended up pulling my remote circuit board completely out to see what else could be an issue.... What did I find? The contact points for the buttons were quite dirty.... Same with the arms for the battery. Once both were cleaned with a q-tip and some alcohol, worked like new!

 

I suggest anyone having this issue, even with new batteries, take apart your remote and gently clean all contact points with the battery and buttons...

 

Good luck!

[NK1964]

What I'd like to see is how far away you can be from your car and still have it unlock the doors. I got a bonafide 150ft range on mine one time.

 

Hello there !

 

Currently, the range is at a mere 90 feet (approximately).

But that's when I'm standing at my door step, which stands downhill from where the car is parked. If I my hand and the fob above my head, the range increases a bit.

 

I measured this yesterday night, by 42°F and damp weather.

 

A week ago in quite a different place, the range was measured at about 130 feet. I was walking downhill on a street towards the car. But a few days before that, on the flat and wide parking lot I mentioned in my previous testimony, the range seemed slightly longer than 130 feet.

[NK1964]

I ended up pulling my remote circuit board completely out to see what else could be an issue.... What did I find? The contact points for the buttons were quite dirty.... Same with the arms for the battery. Once both were cleaned with a q-tip and some alcohol, worked like new!

 

I suggest anyone having this issue, even with new batteries, take apart your remote and gently clean all contact points with the battery and buttons...

 

Good luck!

 

Hello, Laughter13.

Good suggestion. That was my first idea for I had some bad experience with some TV and home stereo remote controls. Some grime develops under those rubber (silicone ?) buttons and onto the circuit board. I cleaned those but I eventually found out that the fix does not last long, for the contact surfaces had actually been worn out.

 

Anyway. On the Subaru key fob, it's quite a different technology, as you may have found out. Those are some tiny "clicker" buttons. And I could find no dirt or grime on those. The battery contacts seemed clean, too.

[NK1964]

Hello NK1964!

I'm still pretty confident that the issue I'm seeing is temperature related. Of course that's not to say that you're not experiencing something else. Maybe you can answer these questions:

- Does your keyfob look exactly like this? If not we have different hardware so its likely not the same problem: http://www.cars101.com/subaru/Ob08keys1.JPG.

 

Hello Bigpilague.

I'm shocked. No, my keyfob really doesn't look anything like the one you show.

It's a triangular thing attached to the metal key.

Just like the one shown on the left of this photograph, here : http://www.google.fr/imgres?newwindow=1&safe=off&sa=X&espv=210&es_sm=122&biw=1366&bih=642&tbm=isch&tbnid=8HLaQRDpzr71ZM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fbhp%2Fsubaru-legacy-key&docid=TysYsxHdIgtlTM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs4.ebaystatic.com%2Fd%2Fl225%2Fm%2Fm2CGylQk7zyXt1R38zlzQbA.jpg&w=225&h=225&ei=YjHRUuPfNc2M0wXBx4DwAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=640&page=2&start=20&ndsp=27&ved=0CJwBEK0DMBY

 

Another example is shown here : http://www.google.fr/imgres?start=165&newwindow=1&safe=off&sa=X&espv=210&es_sm=122&biw=1366&bih=642&tbm=isch&tbnid=G6HOR2FxtQoAnM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keyprof.com%2Fde.Product.php%3Fproduct%3DSubaru%2B3-Knopf%2BSchl%2526uuml%253Bssel%2BGeh%2526auml%253Buse%26pro_id%3Dkpb640&docid=gc5paF7eCRS-bM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keyprof.com%2Fmedia%2Fkpb%2Fkpb640b.jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=ozPRUp-ELOPS0QWul4HoCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=1684&page=7&ndsp=30&ved=0COMBEK0DMEo4ZA

[NK1964]

Hello NK1964!

I'm still pretty confident that the issue I'm seeing is temperature related. Of course that's not to say that you're not experiencing something else. Maybe you can answer these questions:

- When your car won't unlock (or lock), do any of the other buttons on the fob work?

- When your wife's fob isn't working, does your fob work (or vice versa)?

 

The nice thing about a 'scientific' approach is that I have a test that will prove/disprove my theory. Willing to try this? (I'm assuming that your fob always works at home.)

- Place your fob in the fridge for 30 minutes.

- Take it out and immediately try to use it (while its still cold). Does it work?

- Assuming its not working when cold, place it on a heater or lamp for 5-10 minutes (or anything that will make it feel warm to the touch - BUT NOT MELT IT! )

- Take it off the heater and immediately try to use it. Does it work now?

 

If your fob works when this cold and its the same model of fob as mine, then I need a new theory. When I run the above test, no buttons work when the fob is cold, and all of the buttons work when the fob is warm.

 

All right.

I was ready to perform your recommended tests. So today, at 2 PM I grabed the key hanging by the door of our house and proceeded toward the car in order to reproduce yesterday's test performed to measure the fob's range.

 

To my surprise, I reached the car without being able to unlock it. Bugger !

 

Conditions : clear sky (a miracle !), mud on the ground but 50°F by now.

 

I'll keep you posted.

[NK1964]

All right. It's almost three hours later today and the car still will not unlock its doors. The outside temperature has not changed.

I just took the key in my hand and immediately got out of the house and walked towards the car.

 

To answer one of your questions : none of the other buttons has any effect (lock, unlock and latch unlock).

[NK1964]

I am back

 

I followed your instructions and put the key fob in the fridge for a full half hour.

Upon taking it out, I immediately tried to open the car. No luck. None of the button worked, either from afar or right next to the car.

 

So I moved to step two and rested the fob on top of the electric heater.

You joked about making sure the fob would not melt, so I figured you had in mind something stronger, perhaps like an oven or a toaster. So I went ahead and extented the period from 5 to about 15 minutes because my key was just resting on top of the electric heater that sits behind our entrance door.

 

Anyway. The key was very warm to the touch but far from painfully hot when I grabed it and walked towards the car. Surprise, surprise ! The fob works ; the range is back to the usual 90 feet I measured yesterday, later in the evening.

 

So ? So ? What do you make of it ?

[NK1964]

This whole affair reminds me of the hilarious session between Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers. They tried to determine whether pointing the TV clicker towards their chin had any effect. With some pretty wild and funny arguments...

 

http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2127756/does-the-remote-entry-work-better-when-pointed-at-your-chin

[NK1964]

Hey guys ! I'm back. Once again :rolleyes)

 

After letting it rest at room temperature for an hour, I took out the key fob. None of the buttons work.

Sounds logical.

 

So I've put it back on top of the electric heater for a full quarter of an hour.

[HDTurbo]

I suspect solar flares causing interference.

[NK1964]

Some amateur radio operator advises to keep batteries warm in winter time ; and the only other thing you can do to maximize range is to hold the transmitter as high as you can. Abouve your head arm raised if you can bear the ridicule.

[bigpilague]

NK1964 - interesting! thanks for testing that out. Its especially interesting that a different model of key fob is also showing problems with temperature.

 

To the peanut gallery, this is how electronics work (especially surface-mount like our fobs). If the electronic components aren't placed correctly on the circuit board, or the solder isn't done correctly, then electronics can be very susceptible to temperature. A very tiny fracture in the conductive material can occur, which breaks electrical connections when the unit is cooler, but works fine when the unit is warmer (warmer parts expand, so fractures close and electricity can be conducted). Don't be ignorant and suggest that 'it must be radio interference cuz I read that on the internet'. Try my test and see for yourself. If none of your buttons work when the fob is cold, but they all work when the fob is warm, then this is a manufacturing defect. Simple as that.

 

To the poster who mentioned cleaning contacts; obviously I tried all of the simple solutions first. My fob has sealed buttons, which aren't really that easy to clean, but even if it was a problem with dirty contacts, why would all of the buttons work, or all of the buttons not work? When my fob is warm, everything works easily, without having to press and hold the buttons with a lot of pressure. I'm sure that the contacts aren't dirty.

[NK1964]

Right, Bigpilague.

Seing the result of the "room temperature versus electric heater temperature" on my own key fob, I am obviously tempted to go along with your analysis.

 

However I am a bit frustrated because upon reading your theory for the first time, I thought by "cold" you meant a key fob that had being exposed to cold weather. Not merely sitting on the wall, inside the house.

 

Let's say the house is kept at 68°F to 70°F. The temperature might drop to a mere 59°F behind the front door where the keys are hung on the wall. Am I to consider this is cold enough for the solder fracture to act up ?

 

If we look at the result of my tests, the answer seems obvious.

So, I will try and put the key in a warmer area of the house and see if it makes a difference.

 

However there remains the problem of preventing the temperature drop while I am outside. Keeping the key in my breast pocket hasn't done the trick while walking in the street at 44°F, nor keeping it in my wife's purse. Should I put it in my underwear ??

 

I guess the definitive and eventual remedy should be to have the soldering points checked and remade.

[NK1964]

Some more news.

The key fob spent three hours on the kitchen counter where the temperature is a constant 70°F. I took it out and could verify that the car unlocks first time at the usual range of 90 feet.

[bigpilague]

Sorry, that last post was a bit of a drunken rant. I realized I haven't explained this problem well other than saying its 'temperature related'. This is what I'm talking about:

 

The key fobs are all made of surface-mount electronics. Surface-mount electronics can be extremely sensitive to temperature. If components aren't placed perfectly on the circuit board, or if the boards themselves aren't made correctly, or if soldering isn't done correctly (could be wrong solder, wrong temp, bad pre-solder cleaning, etc...), then chances increase that fractures will occur in the conductive material where electricity flows through the electronics. If fracturing is occurring, then a cold circuit board will have wider fractures, and a warm circuit board will have narrow fractures (or they can close entirely). I think that this is what is happening with our key fobs because:

a) When they (the fobs themselves) are cool/cold, none of the buttons work at any range.

b) When the fobs are warm, they work flawlessly.

 

I suppose its possible that its the battery...but I doubt that for 2 reasons:

1 - when I say a 'cool' fob won't function, I mean one at 20 degrees C...that's like room temperature. Most batteries perform just fine at this temp.

2 - My garage door remote as the same battery as my fob and it never stops working...

 

So, that's my theory with why our fobs don't work. Nothing to do with ambient temp or weather. Nothing to do with RF interference. Completely related to the temperature of the key fob when you try to use it. Best solution I have is to keep my key in my pants pocket and hope that it stays warm there when I get to my car.

[DonnyJagaru]

In my keyfob I replaced the battery with new and instead of being intermittent at opening the car, it didn't work at all. The voltage on the new battery is higher than the old and its definitely making contact with the + and - in the keyfob. I'm thinking not enough current here. This is a bit puzzling as same replacement battery type fixed my other keyfob. Odd....

[NK1964]

This goes to prove bigpilague's theory applies to your case, I think.

[HDTurbo]

still say it's random CME events Activity has been high lately and was on 5/12/12 when I had a major problem that led me to change the battery that didn't need to be changed...check the history

[bigpilague]

still say it's random CME events Activity has been high lately and was on 5/12/12 when I had a major problem that led me to change the battery that didn't need to be changed...check the history

 

I'll believe you after you run my test.

 

Yeah, sorry I don't have much of a solution, but I think I've figured out one possible cause. The only real solution in this case would be to get Subaru to admit that they have a shoddy product and get them to replace it (fat chance!). Maybe if enough subaru owners can corroborate my theory we could make enough noise, who knows?

[Max Capacity]

I can kind of agree with the temperture theroy. I'm guessing your talking about 07 and later fobs. My 05 fob stays in my ski pants while skiing, the other weekend air temps were -teens F, the fob worked great when I went to get in the car.

 

My 09 Spec B will sometimes not unlock until I'm with in 5ft of it. New Years day diner, I walked out of the resturant, the car was about 100ft away parked on the street, bingo the doors unlocked. Yet sometimes it takes a few trys to unlock the Spec from the kitchen door where the keys hang on a hook. The car is about 15ft away.

 

Now that you have me on my rant. The motion sensor light by the kitchen door is a PITA too, I replced it with a new last summer. It will sometimes not turn on until your a few feet from it. Last night I drove my pick up truck on the lawn about 50ft away, the stupid light came on.

 

Electronics....

[bigpilague]

I can kind of agree with the temperture theroy. I'm guessing your talking about 07 and later fobs. My 05 fob stays in my ski pants while skiing, the other weekend air temps were -teens F, the fob worked great when I went to get in the car.

 

Yeah, I have an '08 Outback 2.5i

 

My 09 Spec B will sometimes not unlock until I'm with in 5ft of it. New Years day diner, I walked out of the resturant, the car was about 100ft away parked on the street, bingo the doors unlocked. Yet sometimes it takes a few trys to unlock the Spec from the kitchen door where the keys hang on a hook. The car is about 15ft away.

 

This is where the temperature theory is most interesting. While you're trying to unlock the car, you're probably walking towards it with the fob in your hand. Sometimes it just needs a little time to warm up in your hand to start working - especially if the ambient temperature is fairly warm already.

 

I've also wondered if pressing and holding the buttons warms it up (if electricity is flowing at all...), but don't have an easy way to test that.

[NK1964]

Well. After two weeks, i can tell you that when the temperature is around 45°F, the warmth of my palm is not sufficient to please my fob. I had the opportunity to verify this many times those last few weeks.

 

To cap it all out :

 

- The fob sitting behing the front door of the house is never warm enough to work.

- Placing the fob on top of the electric heater for 10 to 15 minutes restores its function, although briefly.

- The fob sitting on the ignition while the car is on the move with the AC set at 75°F (on a 45°F-day) is never warm enough to lock the car aftwards. Quite enraging.

- Carrying the fob in my front trousers' pocket while in the supermarket will not warm it up sufficiently (I guess my wife does not set my pants on fire, anymore).

- Carrying the fob in my coat's breast pocket is not good, either.

- Upon walking back to the car after shopping and after checking the fob does not work, placing it under my arm pit (inside the winter coat but outside the sweater) will make it work after a solid 4 to 6 minutes.

 

It's quite a thing to explain what Daddy is doing to the kids !