LosAngelesLGT Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Its clear from the voting that the misinformation going around in this community is TRAGIC. UELH = stupid design that makes a car burble more than it should and sound INEFFICIENT. Yeah I LOVE the sound of inefficiency. It sounds a lot like lunacy. ELH = true boxer rumble. Its NOT supposed to sound like half a small block on cam people. ELH sounds NOTHING like a inline 4cyl. Ulike many voters Ive actually ran both ELH and UELH. /unsub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbang Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Its clear from the voting that the misinformation going around in this community is TRAGIC. UELH = stupid design that makes a car burble more than it should and sound INEFFICIENT. Yeah I LOVE the sound of inefficiency. It sounds a lot like lunacy. ELH = true boxer rumble. Its NOT supposed to sound like half a small block on cam people. ELH sounds NOTHING like a inline 4cyl. Ulike many voters Ive actually ran both ELH and UELH. /unsub FRIDAY RAAAAAGE! lol Friend has a STi running EL's and he sounds like a small block on cams...but he is pushing ~527WHP on a built block with very agressive cams heh Oh, and I am all for the equal length! Sad I sold my APS headers, but the JDM OEM TS headers are kinda pretty to look at too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Its clear from the voting that the misinformation going around in this community is TRAGIC. UELH = stupid design that makes a car burble more than it should and sound INEFFICIENT. Yeah I LOVE the sound of inefficiency. It sounds a lot like lunacy. ELH = true boxer rumble. Its NOT supposed to sound like half a small block on cam people. ELH sounds NOTHING like a inline 4cyl. Ulike many voters Ive actually ran both ELH and UELH. /unsub I've gotta ask... I was under the impression that the boxer rumble is created by exhaust pulsations going into the manifold and meeting up out of sync. Due to the different length in UEL, that's where you get the rumble from. If you're saying that you still have the boxer rumble even after changing to EL, what's responsible for the rumble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblackwell1 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 does anyone have factual data a dyno sheet or something, to support the power differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 nasioc has a lot of dyno results. the differences are pretty well documented. actual results vary greatly depending on mods and tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I've gotta ask... I was under the impression that the boxer rumble is created by exhaust pulsations ... You answered you own question in the question:rolleyes: You just said "BOXER rumble". Why dont inline 4 sound like a boxer rumble with UELH:iam: Guess its the BOXER motor that makes it sound like a boxer! does anyone have factual data a dyno sheet or something, to support the power differences? SEARCH. Its very, very well documented. So much so that you will probably find a setup similar to yours to justify the purchase (or not!). I did (AND MY TUNER TOLD ME SO: "I told you so!"). EDIT: It is very, very well documented ON NASIOC not on here. Sorry I was not more clear. There is more information (and misinformation) there than you will know what to do with. GLWsearch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblackwell1 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I did search, I see differences between stock headers and aftermarket EL headers but no dyno numbers of AFTERMARKET ELH vs AFTERMARKET UELH. Unless ive missed another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 You answered you own question in the question:rolleyes: You just said "BOXER rumble". Why dont inline 4 sound like a boxer rumble with UELH:iam: Guess its the BOXER motor that makes it sound like a boxer!Yeah, but I mean what specifically about the design of the boxer would do that? Like I said, I was under the impression that it was the exhaust pulses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've gotta ask... I was under the impression that the boxer rumble is created by exhaust pulsations going into the manifold and meeting up out of sync. Due to the different length in UEL, that's where you get the rumble from. If you're saying that you still have the boxer rumble even after changing to EL, what's responsible for the rumble? Firing order plays a big role in how an engine sounds. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 If equal length manifolds were an option that would be my choice. I like the sound and power gains of the ELH, what I don't like is the lost heat energy in the length of piping we have and the tendency towards cracking for headers in general... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 If equal length manifolds were an option that would be my choice. I like the sound and power gains of the ELH, what I don't like is the lost heat energy in the length of piping we have and the tendency towards cracking for headers in general... There's an easy solution to this! Buy an Evo! Seriously though, the amount of energy loss by swapping to ELH is minimal over a tubular UEL header. What really gets you is going from a cast to a tubular manifold, though even the factory uses tubular manifolds on the TS cars. Cracking happens when companies say "metal is metal" and just throw whatever they have at the project. Companies that actually, you know, employ Engineers, don't have this problem nearly as often. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Unless ive missed another thread. No I was unclear where to search. I found a lot of useful dynographs on both NASIOC and IWSTI. I don't like is the lost heat energy in the length of piping Seems like a problem only when talking about cold headers. I can definately tell when my headers are hot. Lag is gone and power is ON. Cracking happens when companies say "metal is metal" and just throw whatever they have at the project. Companies that actually, you know, employ Engineers, don't have this problem nearly as often. Isnt this more a function of metallurgy? I mean, of course a oem cast iron exhaust mani thats 1/2" thick is not going to crack from heat cycling for a loooooooooooooooooooong time. I have no doubt engineers can work around any material issues but isnt that what FULLRACE headers are about? Or maybe I am just clueless and misinformed. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Isnt this more a function of metallurgy? I mean, of course a oem cast iron exhaust mani thats 1/2" thick is not going to crack from heat cycling for a loooooooooooooooooooong time. I have no doubt engineers can work around any material issues but isnt that what FULLRACE headers are about? Or maybe I am just clueless and misinformed. Anyone? Material selection and design is a big part of what Mechanical Engineers do. It was one of my specialties of my undergraduate career (metals specifically). [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 So..... ELH are FTW? I'm so confused. UELH are much cheaper than ELH. To me that means the ELH are better. That was my logic . Are the sounds really THAT different. Someone also said its not the exhaust that makes the sound but the engine itself, if that were true wouldnt the sound be same either way? OMG my brain hurts again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Don't think to hard. Equal length headers require more material and more design time (even if you straight copy). That's part of why they cost more. They are FTW, they make noticeably more power, and they are worth every penny. How an engine sounds is a combination of things. Firing order plays a huge role, because that is ultimately what times the pulses. How you combine the pulses matters too. What you are doing is trying to merge four pressure waves. Merge them sequentially, so they are evenly spaced, and you maximize flow potential. Do so haphazardly, or timed poorly, and you get turbulent flow and inconsistent pressure. This all effects turbo spool. And once the exhaust hits the turbo, all bets are off. What comes out of the turbo is a hot mess of terribly turbulent air. The best thing you can do at that point, is get the exhaust away from the turbine. You also get some sound change by changing the material of the headers. Going from cast to tubes, even if the design were identical, you'd notice a change in sound. As for them sounding different, the turbo really muffles big changes. The difference is noticeable, though. Someone posted a GREAT sound comparison before. I think it was in a thread trying to sell his Genome mufflers. Search and I bet you'll find it! [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Hmm yes, sound clips, that will be the answer. Aesthetics vs power.... thats a no brainer, power wins everytime. ELH FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Actually I dont care about the sounds.... ELH = more power, nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDre Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Does anyone know which header is quieter? EL or UEL??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 EL cuts down on drone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Does anyone know which header is quieter? EL or UEL??? The one mated to a stock catback. EL should be quieter because the pulses should be more smooth/less "vibratto" like sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDre Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 thought so, anyway to keep my car as quiet as possible with aftermarket headers and uppipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 thought so, anyway to keep my car as quiet as possible with aftermarket headers and uppipe? Like LALGT said, keep stock catback. Or at least the stock mufflers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Having had both ELH and UELH I find it MINDBOGGLING that there are as many UELH votes as there are. Silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Having had both ELH and UELH I find it MINDBOGGLING that there are as many UELH votes as there are. Silly. Apparently the "boxer rumble" is the entire reason many members purchased a subaru... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Anybody running Moore Performance 4-2-1 ELH? "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.