gathermewool Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 A lot of mineral oils, for all intents and purposes, have decent VI's, and will perform just fine in cold weather. There's always room for improvement, but a lot of people I've noticed run a synthetic just to run a synthetic, to give themselves peace of mind. That's a perfectly acceptable answer, since it's that person's money, and the extra $X for synthetic is what his/her peace of mind happens to cost. Saying to stick with the oil change specified regardless of the oil you use is ridiculous, though. The detergents and dispersants of an oil will maintain all of those "thin holes" and "sensitive parts like the turbo" clean. As contaminants enter the oil via blow by, or are created due to reactions with the oil itself, they are immediately cleaned with these additives. From daily driving to track days this happens, and the additives in a 1000-mile-old oil will perform just as well as fresh oil after a change. The only deposits will be a microscopic layer of anti-wear material that will prevent contact should the hydrodynamic wedge fail or be overcome. IIRC, anti-wear additives are heat activated, and will take a certain number of running hours to form a tribal layer on opposing surfaces - bearing surfaces. IMO, changing your $10/qt oil is not only a waste of money, but could be detrimental. We need to get away from the whole it-will-be-cheaper-compared-to-a-blown-engine mentality. I'll say it again, unless you have a mechanical issue with your car - could be as simple as a faulty PCV valve or as complicated as a spun bearing - there is no reason that even a spiritedly driven, properly operating car needs to have it's oil change at the manufacturer's specified interval. That interval is based on using a cheaper SM-rated Grp II mineral oil. Better oils last/clean/protect longer, if not better. The only caveat is to stick to the interval if you're worried about a warranty issue. Regardless of whether you heed my words, it's all about what you as an individual want to do, and what you think is safe. If you can't be bothered to do a UOA, and want the peace of mind of using the creme de la creme for your baby, then by all means change out your boutique oil every 3k or less and be done with it. My little diatribe on excessive oil changes is my view of things. I don't mean to offend any one, and I'm not here to spread bad juju. 7k in MY car works for ME, based on UOA. There are many of us out there, bucking the 3mo/3k system. Join us. Drink the Koolaid '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm gonna do a UOA after this nxt change, then go from there. I'm going off to college next fall though, so I probably won't see the affects of different oils/change intervals once she starts coming to campus with me (hopefully in a couple years!) we'll see how things go. BACK ON TOPIC hahah: idling. I've got the ej22 and it's definitely idling low, around 500-550rpm. and it's noticeable; everything's harsh, there's little rattles that go away around 700rpm, but freak out passengers when i come up to a stop sign. i'd rather forgo bogging down the engine like that, and i've tried adjusting it using the throttle control wire, but it seems like the computer rules, and sends it back down to 500. anything I can do to fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 First off what does UOA stand for? I've got a 97 Legacy GT with a "fresh" 2.5 in it. I blew up the last one (had about 220K on it) so I put a JDM import in it. Long story short I don't know what year the short block was built but the heads are from a 96 MY (determined by the valve cover design). I don't think my tick was present when I first got the engine put in, but I can't say 100% for sure. To the guy that ran his engine # to ID the engine, how did you do that? I called the dealer and they said they could only look up VINs. Mine will knock when it's cold until it start to warm up. I can hear it in the car, but it doesn't sound terrible. I use a block heater since it was on the car when I got it (don't have to have it since it's usually 10-30F) but that keeps it from knocking when I leave the house in the morning. Still knocks a bit when I leave school though to come home. The ticking I hear bothers me though. Even when the car is at full operating temp, I hear a ticking noise coming from the left head. Poking around with a stethoscope I narrowed it down to around the exhaust port. I can hear it in the left manifold, and around the exhaust ports. I've read somewhere that a leaking exhaust manifold gasket can sound like valve ticking, but I haven't been able to confirm or deny a leak. I'm just worried because it seems to get slowly louder as time goes on and an engine that is supposed to have less than 40K on it should not be sounding like that in my opinion. Right side is perfectly quiet. The odd thing though is that as the RPMs increase, the noise only gets faster. It doesn't seem to get louder. Once I get up to about 3000 RPM I can't hear the noise anymore over the rest of the engine. I don't know if this is similar to what you guys are hearing but if anyone has successfully been able to diagnose this, or has other input, please let me know. I don't have the cash to rip the engine back apart to try to find the source. I've only been driving the car since September so I don't have much experience with these engines, yet. The mechanic at the shop I work with says that is normal for Subaru's. I'm not completely convinced. I'd at least like to find out what the heck it is. As long as I know what it is then I can decide if it's worth fixing. It may be a normal tick for these engines, but growing up listening to the family cars and fixing the noises with my dad this freaks me out a bit. To give you an idea, I just finished changing my rear diff in the driveway this morning because it had some gear whine that drove me nuts even though the diff wasn't anywhere near failing (or so I think, but now I'll never know, lol). I ran across an interesting "additive" that I tried in my Pontiac Sunfire and it seemed to work; ATF. Hear it from a guy back at home that used to run some through his truck to clean the lifters and suck. Basically when you change your oil you put like 4 quarts of oil in and 1 quart of ATF (assuming a 5 quart capacity, modify appropriately to get about a 4:1 ratio). Still lubricates the engine but I guess it helps to clean stuff. Then just put all oil back in when you change the oil again. I was skeptical, and still am a little since I don't know the science behind it, but I tried it in my Sunfire and it did quite a lifter down that had been tapping pretty bad. Been running the car for about a year or two since I did that and it's still running good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 If they are 96 heads then you do have hydraulic lifters. I wouldn't use tranny fluid to free up a sticky lifter, but that's JMO. If you're really concerned you could pull the heads, remove the rockers, and clean the little buggers. The piston slap is always present on my car, though only worryingly loud when really cold out. The tick was noticeably different than the knocking sound of the piston slap. Again, I'm King Skeptic, but the tick has not returned since running Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner, leading me to believe my issues was injector related. Could be a huge coincidence, but going from scarily loud at every startup to non-existant is tough to explain. I apologize for using UOA instead of Used Oil Analysis. A UOA is an analysis performed on your used oil - a small amount of the oil is collected in a small container while draining. Spectral analysis is performed to determine wear metals and additives in the oil. Other analyses will determine how much fuel, water, antifreeze, etc. contaminants are in the oil. Barring excessive wear metals and contamination, Total Base Number (TBN), viscosity @ 100C, and flashpoint will show how the oil has held up so far. These numbers will be the determining factor for extending drain intervals. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 haha yeah sorry about the UOA too; as for the controversy between HLAs and MLAs, I'm almost positive a 96 (regardless of a 2.2 or 2.5) was running MLAs, so that might explain a tick if the lash is off. Again, not entirely sure, but i trust gathermewool. might wanna check anyway just to see this tick, and piston slap, seem to be everywhere with these cars. I wish i knew why, but from what i've heard from other subaru owners (and what i've literally heard from friends' cars), it's commonplace. definitely try to fix it, there's always a solution to some noise that shouldn't be there. i'm gonna try the techron soon and see how that goes over; i'll back up gathermewool if the stuff really works haha. hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I guess my reply yesterday didn't go though since it's not there. Anyway, it's a 2.5L so it has DOHC and thus shim/bucket valves (to my knowledge there weren't SOHC 2.5L engines that early). No lifters to worry about (good or bad). I think you're referring to the valve cover being removed, not the heads. You have to take the cams and related stuff off before you can take the heads off to expose the pistons. The valve covers expose the cams/rockers/lifters. Not to be picky, but there's a BIG difference between popping off the valve covers and pulling the heads to "check it out." I may try the fuel treatment stuff if I think about it sometime when I'm at the store. Doubt it will do anything though as my tick is on the bottom side of the engine, away from the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Yep that was my bad haha sorry didn't think of it then. you're absolutely right, it's a whole different story between valve covers and heads! I just picked up a bottle of techron today, and i'm waiting to drain the tank before putting it in. maybe i'll take a road trip to get away from all of the rain here; i'll let you guys know how things go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 Sorry about that, bud. I did, in fact, mean valve cover, but methinks we all knew what I meant...ya jerk : P I'll have to look it up when I'm able - replying on my BB now - but I think only the 97+ were MLA, your '96 being HLA, but don't quote me on that just yet. It may only be the 2.2L's that were HLA. While the tick worried me, the piston slap is just a consequence of the design. Longer skirt = quieter, but heavier. Shorter skirt = light, but, as we all know, can sometimes cause a racket. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I believe the difference is between SOHC and DOHC. The attached images are from my service manual so you can see the difference. The MLAs/HLAs are only on the rockers on the SOHC engines The manual tells how to bleed the hydraulic units, but the diagrams look like they show manual adjustment and the (dis)assembly directions talk about unscrewing the rocker screws so I'm not sure what's going on there. In any case, the DOHC engines do not have lash adjusters. The cams run directly on the shims which push on the buckets which push on the valve stems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Well after a little more reading, I wish I had a SOHC engine. All you have to do to adjust the valves on those is to pull the rocker cover off and adjust a screw. On the DOHC engines you have to pull the timing belt off and remove the cams, then buy the new appropriate shims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Hooray for the ej22! Sorry dude that's a bummer :/ that's alotta work/cash for a little tick...what do you think you're gonna do? Still waiting to drain the tank to put the techron in, if u were thinking of an additive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'm not going to do anything with it right now until it warms up and I feel like pulling the valve cover off to check the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I stand corrected. I found a 96 legacy service manual online and the 2.5L DOHC engine has HLAs instead of shims and buckets. I've attached the bit about diagnosing the HLAs since some of you might find it handy if you have them. I might run through this and/or pull a rocker cover off to verify I have HLA's (I have '96 heads) when it warms up past 15 deg F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 haha sounds good! and for the record, I just put some techron into the tank PROPERLY (many throw in stuff good for 12 gallons and they dilute it in a 20 gallon tank when they fill; wasn't going to happen here!), and waiting to get results. so far the tick has subsided, but i've only run maybe a gallon thru the system. i'll run it dry and see how things turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 I buy the larger bottle and fill the tank - our tanks hold 15.9 gal, IIRC. Unfortunately, the fuel gauge reads E with 3+ gal still left in the tank, so I was only able to run a little over 12 gal of treated fuel through the system. Again, it could be coincidence, but the ticking/rattling sound hasn't been back since. Let us know how it turns out for you, kaz! '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 so starting to get down to the bottom line; i've run a third of the treated gas through, and there's still a cold start tick that stays with it. don't get me wrong, i think the car's running better with the techron run through it, but the tick...damn tick just won't quit. still've got plenty of gas left, so maybe some magic will happen haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoods Snowman Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I haven't really noticed any change in my car either. I'm down to about half a tank left, but I wasn't really expecting anything to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 I haven't really noticed any change in my car either. I'm down to about half a tank left, but I wasn't really expecting anything to begin with. That's the best way to approach this type of thing. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 +1i think i was expecting a little too much, but the tick is something probably in the valvetrain that i can look at once we get some heat up in new england. keep me posted on how yours goes northwoods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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