Poor performance in snow and ice

[AMC]

No question it is the tires.

First winter in my 2007 SpecB with the stock tires it handled the Michigan snow and ice like driving in dog snot!!

Now run a set of "spring" tires on the original rims and run a "winter" set of Dunlop SP Wintersport 3Ds on a set of "cheap" 17'' rims, have run them in 4-12" of unplowed snow and they stick like glue. 6spd Manual trans.

 

I agree with DanT55 definitely turn off traction control when in snow and ice.

[kinder]

I run KW23's in the winter and RE960A's the rest of the year. I always recommend using a true winter tire in the cold season. Its about operating temp and the ability to stop that matters way more than an AWD systems ability to plow through snow.

[forestir]

 

My 2006 Subaru Outback is hard as heck to control, and is not stable in snow and ice with new General Altimax HP all seasons.......

SOA, please help. something is not right. It the rear end. Other cars on the road were just fine, mine was like it was on marbles with backend swaying, even at low speeds of 40 when other cars were driving 55 and not having control issues. None of the other Subarus ever were this bad in all conditions. I am 35, plenty of experience growing up ni the snow belt. What did SOA do wrong on this car. I would gladly trade it for the way my old ones were.

 

Take a read through this thread: <http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11267&perpage=20&pagenumber=1>.

 

You may have an alignment issue that changes with loading (especially in the rear).

[outahere]

............My 2006 Subaru Outback is hard as heck to control, and is not stable in snow and ice with new General Altimax HP all seasons.......

SOA, please help. something is not right. It the rear end. Other cars on the road were just fine, mine was like it was on marbles with backend swaying, even at low speeds of 40 when other cars were driving 55 and not having control issues. None of the other Subarus ever were this bad in all conditions. I am 35, plenty of experience growing up ni the snow belt. What did SOA do wrong on this car. I would gladly trade it for the way my old ones were.

 

There is a very lengthy thread at subaruoutback.org about this "ghost walking" problem. The most likely cause is excessive toe change in the rear, especially when the rear is loaded with passengers and gear. The rear suspension was redesigned for the 2010 Outback and Legacy.

[bheinen74]

There is a very lengthy thread at subaruoutback.org about this "ghost walking" problem. The most likely cause is excessive toe change in the rear, especially when the rear is loaded with passengers and gear. The rear suspension was redesigned for the 2010 Outback and Legacy.

 

The little bit of extra loading should not throw alignment off so dearly the way it does as to cause a REALLY BAD handling problem. I am ready to go back to the old design Subaru, as the new design is not acceptable. There will most likley be a recall or something on this, its NOT right. Engineers are not to be trusted on the newer 05-09 outback. They really screwed up.

[legume]

CURRENT CAR is 06 cobalt ss/sc with pirelli sottozero 240's these tires lovvve the snow. whats confusing me is that all these posts of people gettinh awd cars and assuming that the dealership would have given you snow tires or that just because you have awd you neednt be prepared for snow ? seriously? idk about most of you but having a set of tires for the winter and summer is only common sense i would think. btw - next car will be a subie just not sure if its gonna be a wrx or legacy but i cant wait

!

 

Call me an idiot, but I had no idea that "sports performance tires" are dangerous when used in cold weather, nor did I know this car was equipped with them. I don't race so I've never owned or desired them. I had to learn this the hard way after narrowly avoiding several accidents, and finally looking up the model number of the tire online. I would have hoped the dealer would have mentioned this, as I purchased the car in October, just before the cold weather hit. Instead they used the tires as a selling point "hey, it has new tires!” Shame on me for not doing more research, and perhaps negotiating with the dealer before signing (because like I said I could care less about SPT's), but I was in a time crunch to find a vehicle before my reimbursed rental car expired that day (after my previous car was totaled). It never occurred to me to look into the exact tire type before completing the purchase.

 

Obviously I know better now. I'm not exactly a car guy, even several of my friends were surprised to hear that these types of tires harden to grip-less plastic when cold, so apparently it is not common knowledge outside of gear-heads.

I've only ever owned 1 set of all season tires. I'm generally cheap, so I'm not interested in the expense of multiple sets of tires, on top of the installation costs throughout the year.

[Richard_Mtl]

I live in Montreal, and my 2.5i legacy wagon is fantastic on both snow and ice. I'm using General Tire Artic Artimax tires. Handles great.

[rock2534]

Call me an idiot, but I had no idea that "sports performance tires" are dangerous when used in cold weather, nor did I know this car was equipped with them. I don't race so I've never owned or desired them. I had to learn this the hard way after narrowly avoiding several accidents, and finally looking up the model number of the tire online. I would have hoped the dealer would have mentioned this, as I purchased the car in October, just before the cold weather hit. Instead they used the tires as a selling point "hey, it has new tires!” Shame on me for not doing more research, and perhaps negotiating with the dealer before signing (because like I said I could care less about SPT's), but I was in a time crunch to find a vehicle before my reimbursed rental car expired that day (after my previous car was totaled). It never occurred to me to look into the exact tire type before completing the purchase.

 

Obviously I know better now. I'm not exactly a car guy, even several of my friends were surprised to hear that these types of tires harden to grip-less plastic when cold, so apparently it is not common knowledge outside of gear-heads.

I've only ever owned 1 set of all season tires. I'm generally cheap, so I'm not interested in the expense of multiple sets of tires, on top of the installation costs throughout the year.

 

Everyone has to learn it at some point. I learned about 10 yrs ago when I bought my 01 Acura CL, I had a hell of a time getting around in the snow and just thought my "car was bad in snow", then I found out it was the horrible michelin pilots that come stock on it. After that I got some blizzaks for the winter and summer tires for the rest of the year.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Long thread, has anyone asked whether he has the limited slip read dif? Not having a limited slip rear differential in snow can make it a real pain to get around at low speeds when you're getting high-sided a lot.

[legume]

Long thread, has anyone asked whether he has the limited slip read dif? Not having a limited slip rear differential in snow can make it a real pain to get around at low speeds when you're getting high-sided a lot.

 

I'm not sure what that is, but I don't think I have it. What I do know is that since I changed to all season tires, it's like night and day. I love driving through the snow now, and feel much safer. Stopping performance is greatly improved as well. My old front wheel drive cars aren't even close to the same league as this.

[RJS5689]

Call me an idiot, but I had no idea that "sports performance tires" are dangerous when used in cold weather, nor did I know this car was equipped with them. I don't race so I've never owned or desired them. I had to learn this the hard way after narrowly avoiding several accidents, and finally looking up the model number of the tire online. I would have hoped the dealer would have mentioned this, as I purchased the car in October, just before the cold weather hit. Instead they used the tires as a selling point "hey, it has new tires!” Shame on me for not doing more research, and perhaps negotiating with the dealer before signing (because like I said I could care less about SPT's), but I was in a time crunch to find a vehicle before my reimbursed rental car expired that day (after my previous car was totaled). It never occurred to me to look into the exact tire type before completing the purchase.

 

Obviously I know better now. I'm not exactly a car guy, even several of my friends were surprised to hear that these types of tires harden to grip-less plastic when cold, so apparently it is not common knowledge outside of gear-heads.

I've only ever owned 1 set of all season tires. I'm generally cheap, so I'm not interested in the expense of multiple sets of tires, on top of the installation costs throughout the year.

You're right, unfortunately it's not common knowledge! It's VERY alarming that so few people know much about cars/tires/physics behind car control.

[scoobydoo06]

We have an open rear diff. This makes me cry a little inside.

 

The Gt has an lsd rear diff, and im assuming that th 3.0R has the same rear diff. but other models are open. Get a good set of tires that have a temperature friendly viscosity. Stock tires are too hard. Alignment really does help the awd system work. Since your system is the auto system it will greatly help your car cope with transferring traction. even on the 5mt air pressure and alignment is the world of a difference. Good Luck and Enjoy.

 

Nate.

[mustangendsley]

get better tires, you guys get what, slush and wet snow over there. Try driving in powder snow. That is what we get in colorado. Powder snow will take you off the road quicker than you can plink you eye. I have never had a problem with my 05 gt with stock tires or my new falkin tires. You have to know how to drive. Subaru's were made famious in Alaska and did great.

[ehsnils]

Thiis is interesting. I don't speak German...my first thought is each car equiped with the same tires?

 

Not German - Swedish.

 

Anyway - there is no substitute for the real thing when it comes to winter tires.

 

I have the ContiWinterViking 2 tires on my car. No issues at all when it comes to grip or stability.

 

 

get better tires, you guys get what, slush and wet snow over there. Try driving in powder snow. That is what we get in colorado. Powder snow will take you off the road quicker than you can plink you eye. I have never had a problem with my 05 gt with stock tires or my new falkin tires. You have to know how to drive. Subaru's were made famious in Alaska and did great.

 

Personally I think that slush is the absolutely worst kind of condition you can drive in - especially the slush that appears when packed snow thaws. You will never know when you hit a hidden ridge or the car starts to go mud planing. And I have driven in most kind of snow. Powder is nice compared to that.

[ClimberDHexMods]

The idea of having the limited slip dif in the rear is that if you do have it, you will get both rear tires to spin at a stop instead of one tire spinning out of control and the other tire not spinning at all. So if you have no limited slip diffs on a subaru, you'll get one wheel powered on the front axle, and one in the rear too. This was a nightmare on my old base model impreza. Having 3 tires out of 4 with the LGT get traction in a slick environment, like accelerating from a stop sign in heavy snow, is much better. In the Impreza, my trick was to never go below like 8mph. Anyways, having a limited slip front dif, like in the STi, would mean all four wheels would get power if tires are spinning. This is the best in every situation.

[LegacyFuture]

I have a 2008 LGT Auto and during the recent snow storm in NYC, I couldn't get out of my parking spot until I turned off VDC.

[ClimberDHexMods]

I have a 2008 LGT Auto and during the recent snow storm in NYC, I couldn't get out of my parking spot until I turned off VDC.

 

VDC is meant--in part--to match each wheel's speed to the rate of it crossing the ground. I guess you need to make the wheels slip a little before they find their bite. I don't know anything certainly, but that must have something to do with it. The best way to move through snow in some instances is to spin the tires slightly faster than they would with static grip. That's how you get a gaper's car out of a ditch during ski season anyways. Subaru VDC is a really lacking system, at least compared to Audi Quattro. Not surprised.

[legume]

Not German - Swedish.

I was wondering about that, especially considering it was a Volvo demo. As a Minnesotan I should have known this.

 

Personally I think that slush is the absolutely worst kind of condition you can drive in - especially the slush that appears when packed snow thaws. You will never know when you hit a hidden ridge or the car starts to go mud planing. And I have driven in most kind of snow. Powder is nice compared to that.

Agreed. However powder on top of frozen, impacted snow can be horrible as well. We have that situation here currently, with a bitter cold snap setting in. It could be a month before this frozen base layer will thaw. There are several streets in my neighborhood I avoid entirely, because the ice is hard as a rock, and very uneven. It's like driving over pavement someone took a jackhammer to, only slippery.

[Mickeytl]

Just got my 05 Legacy LGT 2 weeks ago and it was horrible in the snow. I've got Fuzion Hri on the car right now. It would slip with just an inch of snow on the ground. I've got alot better traction with my 02 Acura TLS with blizzak WS60 tires. My wife prefers to drive the Acura as of right now.

[Eville Rich]

Successfully driving on snow and ice is a combination of the right equipment and driver technique. The driver may be more important than the equipment. You can't ask AWD to make up for the lack of either two.

 

We have plenty of people who drive 2WD pickup trucks and standard tires through the winter. Some put weight in the back and some don't. Back in the day, I survived my first Wisconsin winter with a little Nissan 2WD pickup and A/S tires. That said, I much prefer the AWD with proper snow tires.

 

If you have summer only tires, then it will be a real bear, regardless of AWD. Then the driver has to make up for the lack of proper equipment. Gotta respect Father Winter.

 

Eville Rich

[Rutchard]

Just got my 05 Legacy LGT 2 weeks ago and it was horrible in the snow. I've got Fuzion Hri on the car right now. It would slip with just an inch of snow on the ground. I've got alot better traction with my 02 Acura TLS with blizzak WS60 tires. My wife prefers to drive the Acura as of right now.

AWD can't help lousy tires, ditch the Fuzions.

[birchwood]

Im on my second subie, it is def. all about the tires. A bad tire in the winter will kill the performance of your lovely AWD system. Its worth the money to go with a good set of blizzaks or winterforces. Ive owned several sets of both, and would highly recommend them