Liv4nothing Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I recently put D2 fully adjustable coilovers on my 09 legacy 2.5i. The front coilovers came with built in camber kit, but the rear did not. I had ordered whiteline adjustable control arms but from a local shop, but whiteline has never even produced those. I just need some help finding a camber kit, cause im tired of my tires getting eaten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmachine Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/performance-auto-parts/rear-control-arms-adjustable-toe-camber/ Perrin has a version of this as well,but only the straight (camber) link. Perrin's will not fare well over the long haul on a daily driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifbiker Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 More than likely the rear toe is not set close to zero and the combination of increased rear camber and toe is causing tire wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/320/Rear-Control-Arms-Lateral-Links?category=8&model=10 Just installed on my LGT last week. Now if we only could get extended toe control back there. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/performance-auto-parts/rear-control-arms-adjustable-toe-camber/ Perrin has a version of this as well,but only the straight (camber) link. Perrin's will not fare well over the long haul on a daily driver. tried searching for reviews but nothing much. can you explain why the perrin links aren't reliable? i've read the same thing here and there on the forums also, but no definite reason or case where it happened. according to their site, "All these features add up to a part with both performance benefits, and durability that lasts forever. " ?!? considering the price cut on these perrin links, and that the BP/BL chassis is done for; perrin is probably going to discontinue these soon leaving no option for BP/BL owners. makes me want to jump on these soon! how do these do with NVH? according to perrin, "The steel factory control arms have flimsy rubber bushings pressed in both ends. While an acceptable choice for the street, they are not ideal for performance minded driving. PERRIN™ adjustable control arms solve all of those problems without increased noise, harshness or vibration (NVH) associated with other adjustable control arms." for the suspension guru's how would getting these links affect toe? how is the toe and camber dependant upon each other in our suspension setup. why i really would want these is my camber is kinda f'd up. its like -0.8 and -1.5, left and right respectfully. nothing looks bent. just want to dial in -1.0 with 0 toe. the stock toe bolts should be able to handle that right? Liv4nothing, sorry about jacking your thread. i just wanted to ask some questions that may help you and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifbiker Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The issue with the Perrin links are the spherical joints. They work great as long as they are clean, once they get dirty they will squeek. Cobb used the same style joint on their end links and I believe you can find many people who had squeeky links. I'm a little concerned about your current camber measurement, did you measure it or a tire shop? From personal experience most tire shops do a pretty bang up job when it comes to alignments and rarely do I trust their numbers. I would try and find a shop that you know can do a precision alignment and see what numbers they come up with. The links will effect toe in the way you want. The end result of lowering the car with out doing an alignment will toe out the front wheels and toe in the rear. By correcting the camber with the link in the rear will help bring the toe back close to its original setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The issue with the Perrin links are the spherical joints. They work great as long as they are clean, once they get dirty they will squeek. Cobb used the same style joint on their end links and I believe you can find many people who had squeeky links. I'm a little concerned about your current camber measurement, did you measure it or a tire shop? From personal experience most tire shops do a pretty bang up job when it comes to alignments and rarely do I trust their numbers. I would try and find a shop that you know can do a precision alignment and see what numbers they come up with. The links will effect toe in the way you want. The end result of lowering the car with out doing an alignment will toe out the front wheels and toe in the rear. By correcting the camber with the link in the rear will help bring the toe back close to its original setting. I bet I have about 7 pairs of spherical ended arms on my 240SX, not fancy-schmancy Perrin arms, but generic eBay ones. Only one pair has ever squeeked in 30k miles. A very easy remedy is squirting on some graphite lube every couple thousand miles. You don't have to jack up the car or remove any wheels, just squat down and spray. Again, that's 1 out of 7 pairs of crappily made arms. And no, I have no additional NHV from the Perrin arms on my LGT. But unfortunately, it did not help my rear toe. Right rear tow is a smidge too inside, I had to toe in the rear left to compensate until a better solution comes out. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I bet I have about 7 pairs of spherical ended arms on my 240SX, not fancy-schmancy Perrin arms, but generic eBay ones. Only one pair has ever squeeked in 30k miles. A very easy remedy is squirting on some graphite lube every couple thousand miles. You don't have to jack up the car or remove any wheels, just squat down and spray. Again, that's 1 out of 7 pairs of crappily made arms. And no, I have no additional NHV from the Perrin arms on my LGT. But unfortunately, it did not help my rear toe. Right rear tow is a smidge too inside, I had to toe in the rear left to compensate until a better solution comes out. sounds promising that you haven't had much issue with other spherical ended arms, however you live in texas and i live in pennsylvania. dont know if that will make a difference with my salt and snow. if your toe is off maybe the lateral link that controls the toe is bent? on my current alignment i got -0.8, -1.5 for camber L,R, and 0.2, 0.0, toe L, R. my right side is about right, but my left is definately off. visually nothing looks bent, but i suspect something might be bent. i was thinking of getting factory replacements since they are fairly cheap, but i want to get my camber back in check around -1.0 which is why i'm looking at the perrins. now that you have them on, other than getting your alignment closer to what you want, is there any other difference in handling and or feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm a little concerned about your current camber measurement, did you measure it or a tire shop? From personal experience most tire shops do a pretty bang up job when it comes to alignments and rarely do I trust their numbers. I would try and find a shop that you know can do a precision alignment and see what numbers they come up with. The links will effect toe in the way you want. The end result of lowering the car with out doing an alignment will toe out the front wheels and toe in the rear. By correcting the camber with the link in the rear will help bring the toe back close to its original setting. i went to NTB. its a chain store so i would expect there to be crappy shops and good shops. most of the techs looked like car enthusiasts. i don't know if thats a good thing or bad thing, but there were like two clean 240sx's and 3 other honda's in the back parking lot. they even asked me what kind of alighment numbers did i want. anyway the tech did say my left rear is a little off. camber is none adjustable, and he tried to get toe to 0.0 as best he could (0.2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 now that you have them on, other than getting your alignment closer to what you want, is there any other difference in handling and or feel? Can't tell you that yet. I have since removed my front control arms and am putting in a Whiteline caster/anti-lift kit. My bushings were shot. Steering was wobbly and car was tracking all over the place. I suspect my failed Megan coilovers had something to do with that. I bet I will end up replacing the bushings in the rear trailing arms as well. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 ic. as of now for my front, i want to get the whiteline roll center kit, avo lca bushing, front wrx lca bushing, and steering rack bushings. fairly cheap mods; however installation is a bitch i think. still researching and trying to figure out my rear. you say you might have to replace the rear trailing arm bushings? why? and are there even aftermarket options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmachine Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I live in the north east where rock salt is used a lot in winter. Not friendly to things like pillow bearings. My car mostly stays in when the salt comes out. My set of Perrin links were fairly early in the production run. I think they changed the spherical bearing in the later runs. Had to have one side replaced due to noise issues,and the new part looked different. The set on the car now is silent,but they have not been exposed to salt spray. So to be fair to Perrin these may or may not hold up to north east winters. The factory Toe adjustment doesn't have enough range to compensate for lowered cars. Changing camber only also changes the toe. It's a compromised setting without an adjustable toe link with the range necessary to cover cars lowered more than 1 inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcbjr Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 ic. as of now for my front, i want to get the whiteline roll center kit, avo lca bushing, front wrx lca bushing, and steering rack bushings. fairly cheap mods; however installation is a bitch i think. still researching and trying to figure out my rear. you say you might have to replace the rear trailing arm bushings? why? and are there even aftermarket options? I dont think there are aftermarket replacement rear trailing arm bushings, no. I am going to check them out and then most likely use some 3M window weld to stiffen them up as much as I can. I forgot what I was supposed to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifbiker Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 naimouasta What spring and strut package are you running that resulted in this alignment? I suspect the car is lowered in excess on 1 inch? If your spring/strut package is adjustable I would be half tempted to raise the car up to some with a max drop of around .75 inch or so. You can lower the car more than 1 inch but then a lot of the suspension geometry needs to be corrected so that roll centers are correct etc. The other issue is that there isn't alot of bump travel in either the front or the rear. Take a look at the distance between the rear rubber bump stop and the arm, I suspect they are pretty close to one an other and when you hit a bump the rubber stop is coming into play. The same thing occurs up front but its harder to see because the dust boot covers the rubber bump. The front rubber bump is like a very progressive rate spring it initially crushes easily and then the amount of force to crush it goes up quickly. So when the suspension travels in to the bump your spring rate goes up pretty quickly which will effect your handling. To do it right all of these factors need to be condsidered as well how to get your alignment back to where you want it. NTB said they got the rear with in .2, is that .2mm or degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 well i'm on koni's and rallitek springs. advertised lowering is 1.1" F and 0.9" rear so its lower but not slammed like a lot of other springs. i think i've only hit the bump stops once maybe? it was a loud BOOM from the back. was on the highway with the car fully loaded; there was a huge but smooth dip. this was back when i was on the stock struts/shocks though. 0.2 degrees. there is some tire wear in that corner compared to the others, but its not bad compared to what i've seen on some cars. i keep it in check with 6-7k mile rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifbiker Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The side that has more camber, does it appear to sit lower than the other side? Also did you replace the rubber spring perch in the rear when you put in the springs? I know the iON rear spring came ground smooth on top so I purchased new rear rubber perches so everything would mate nice and flat. -0.8 degrees camber in the rear seems pretty reasonable as that's about what I ended up with on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 the side with more camber does appear lower now that i look. also the side with less camber, rubbed a little bit (18X8, 48+, 235/40) from time to time. bugs the hell out of me that the suspension is some how uneven. i've read here and there that some people also have uneven camber. unless if the stock links are bent, getting these adjustable links just seems like we're covering up some other issue. unless the subframe is bent or not straight, the only thing that can cause this are the links correct? camber before and after me getting springs then koni's are the same. looking at the trailing arm, the bushing that holds the arm in place allows it to move some side to side correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifbiker Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I need to verify my heights now, but before I replaced my springs my car sat high on one side and I never knew why. After replacing the springs, top hats and rear spring rubber perches I'm pretty sure its level. Are you sure the the strut/spring assy was put back together correctly with everything located where it needs to be? If the cone washer was left out on the front assy this will effect ride height, if the rear springs are nest in the rubber differently this will effect ride height too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teK-- Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Whiteline KCA399 rear camber bush kit is all you need it gives +/- 1.5deg adjustment. http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA399 I have this fitted and used it to decrease negative camber at the rear after I lowered, since I only wanted about -1deg per side and it was around -2deg after I lowered. By design, our rear suspensions will increase negative camber and toe-in as the suspension compresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HFSDevil Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Whiteline KCA399 rear camber bush kit is all you need it gives +/- 1.5deg adjustment. http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA399 I have this fitted and used it to decrease negative camber at the rear after I lowered, since I only wanted about -1deg per side and it was around -2deg after I lowered. By design, our rear suspensions will increase negative camber and toe-in as the suspension compresses. Thank you for this!!!! Found the part on the US website for my 2002 Legacy and hopefully this will fix my rear camber issue. https://whitelineperformance.com/subaru-rear-control-arm-upper-outer-bushing-camber-correction-kca399 2002 Subaru Legacy L (Retired) 2008 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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