Dunlop Winter Sport 3D any good?

[Leper]

I am an avid Car & Driver fan but disappointed they only tested Michelin products. The Hankook 409 snow tires are amazing--especially with Subaru's all wheel drive. Deep snow, ice and crud are no match for these tires. I sincerely feel they would blow the Michelin's away.

[TSiWRX]

^ Certainly, I would have wished for a more comprehensive examination - as they did with the "budget summer" series.

 

But I got a distinct feeling that the test was more or less a press event.

[outahere]

.......Given C&D's comparo of Michelin tires for winter traction, I now no longer have much faith, at all, in the wintering capabilities of the Bridgestone RE960AS........

 

Is the C&D test online?

 

Here is another test of Michelin tires (215/45-17), in the dry, wet, and snow. The tires tested were:

 

Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 all-season tires

Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 high-performance summer tires

Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 performance winter

 

http://www.insideline.com/features/tire-test-all-season-vs-snow-vs-summer.html

 

".......To the surprise of exactly no one, our winter tires dominate in snow and the summer tires dominate in the dry. The eye-opener here relates to wet performance, where a well-developed summer tire embarrasses an all-season tire made for the same car by the same folks........"

 

".....Things are much the same when braking [in the wet] from 60 mph. The summer tire's 157-foot stop is the shortest, the snow tires come up 2nd at 181 feet and the all-season tires lag further behind in a flurry of ABS activity on the way to a distance of 215 feet, some 58 feet longer than the summer tire......."

[TSiWRX]

^ I'll have to look at that one when I've got more time - most interesting that their all-season's data is, at least by the excerpt that you pulled, different!

 

Here's the C&D -

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/01q2/winter_tires_vs._all-season_tires-feature

 

Wet, at 23 deg. F., for the HX MXM4, 60-0 MPH logged 140 ft. Xi2 logged 174 ft., whereas the PA3 logged 145 ft. I'm reading this off my subscription (free!!!!) copy, now, and did not cross-confirm if the on-line copy shows the same data or not.

 

There's gotta be some detail in the testing, accounting for the differences. I'll have to read more on the Inside Line article....gotta go pick up Anna from school!

[outahere]

The insideline wet tests were performed near Phoenix, AZ in May, so we can rule out 23 degree temps.

 

"......to get meaningful and accurate wet test results. What's needed is a large flat VDA with a special asphalt formulation and a water-delivery system that can maintain a uniform depth of water (the approximate thickness of a quarter), so there's a consistent coefficient of friction across the entire surface.

 

We find it at Arizona Proving Ground (APG) near Phoenix, formerly a Volvo facility and now branded as Ford........."

 

".........In fact, the all-season tire began encountering trouble near 40 mph, where it had been only 0.4 second behind the summer tire's performance when hydroplaning and wheelspin paid a visit........"

[outahere]

.......

 

Here's the C&D -

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/01q2/winter_tires_vs._all-season_tires-feature

 

..............

 

That link took me to a 2001 test of Dunlop winter tires. :lol:

[outahere]

........Wet, at 23 deg. F., for the HX MXM4, 60-0 MPH logged 140 ft. Xi2 logged 174 ft., whereas the PA3 logged 145 ft.............

 

How does C&D do wet pavement testing at 23 degF? I would expect the wet pavement to ice up at 23 degF. Are they salting the pavement?

[outahere]

A copy of the C&D test has been posted here:

 

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1338937

[TSiWRX]

That link took me to a 2001 test of Dunlop winter tires. :lol:

 

^ Oh crap, I've been pwned by the Intr4w3b. Like I said, I was in a rush, and I just typed into Google "car driver snow shoes" - "Snow Shoes" as the name of the article, and I just instantly hit the copy/paste, thereafter. My fault!!!

 

How does C&D do wet pavement testing at 23 degF? I would expect the wet pavement to ice up at 23 degF. Are they salting the pavement?

 

I'll read the article again, to see if they provide details, but I honestly don't know - perhaps they meant air temperature? with the tarmac temperature yet to reach that low? Maybe there'll be a letter-to-the-editor this month, that'll address that.

 

You know what's REALLY embarrassing? I've cited that temperature repeatedly, and yet, that never occurred to me. And I call myself a "scientist!"

 

But regardless of the temperature differences between the two tests (hum...May in Arizona, you say? ), that was big disparity between the two. The other data (from what I can remember of my readings of the C&D, but I'll have to look at the two, side-by-side, to confirm) seem to mesh decently well.

 

 

I wonder if it has something to do with the inherent differences in vehicle platforms tested? Maybe the G35's braking is better balanced than that of the Civic Si's? I don't know if that really makes sense to me, though, as I'd think that other test parameters would also show wider differences, if that were the case.

 

But then again, I missed the fact that at 23 deg. F., we should be ice-skating.....

 

 

---

 

OK, since it's free communication weekend on Match.com:

 

We both like lights, we both like winter tires.

 

I've got a pair of Sorels from the last two winters that I just love, but am gonna be wearing out this year. Whatcha lookin' at, this season, for trekking out on the black-ice of your local grocery store's parking lot?

 

I may be fat like Kung-Fu Panda, but when it's slippery out, I'm trotting downhill with those, while people half my age are falling on their asses.

[outahere]

.......... Whatcha lookin' at, this season, for trekking out on the black-ice of your local grocery store's parking lot?.............

 

http://www.yaktrax.com/ProductsWalker.aspx

 

I keep a pair of them in the car.

[TSiWRX]

^ Maybe I should just stud my shoes, and call it a day?

 

Hum....that looks like a nice product, I'll invest in a pair.

 

Seriously, as you come out of my work garage and walk in, there's a decently steep slope - which puts you out right onto the street (one of my irrational fears is getting clobbered by a bus, which, in Cleveland, isn't really that irrational of a fear, if you've kept up with the news).

 

Have you tried the Gripons or the Stabilicers?

[outahere]

.........Have you tried the Gripons or the Stabilicers?

 

Haven't tried any of those. Why don't you buy a Blizzak WS60, cut out a hunk of the multicell tread, and glue it to the bottoms of your Sorels?

 

I am a bit surprised that no shoemaker has pursued the idea of putting rubber ice traction soles on a regular shoe. They could use the ice traction ideas that Bridgestone and Michelin have put into their tires. WTH does the Michelin Man wear on his feet when it gets icy?

[TSiWRX]

Haven't tried any of those. Why don't you buy a Blizzak WS60, cut out a hunk of the multicell tread, and glue it to the bottoms of your Sorels?

 

You know........there are single winters, listed on local Craigslist....... :lol:

 

I wonder how long it'll take me to wear through the Tube MultiCell layer, just walking around.

 

I am a bit surprised that no shoemaker has pursued the idea of putting rubber ice traction soles on a regular shoe. They could use the ice traction ideas that Bridgestone and Michelin have put into their tires. WTH does the Michelin Man wear on his feet when it gets icy?

 

^ Hey, if you looked at the more recent Michelin Man winter ads, you'll see:

 

http://www.tirecraft.com/Portals/0/promos/MichelinWinterEast.jpg

 

 

You know, I'd almost expect a brand like DC Shoes or Piloti to come up with something entertaining and novel, like that.

 

BTW, the M-Man sure looks good, now that he's lost all that weight.

[outahere]

Awesome:lol:

[TSiWRX]

^ Actually, I'll confess to this little thing having bugged me for a number of weeks, before you wrote about it above.

 

In the latest C&D TireRack ads, he's wearing something I can't quite figure out....

[outahere]

One more winter tire test from Tirerack, this time WS60 vs LM60 vs DS3 vs Conti

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=125

[tron79]

I have a 2009 3.0R Limited and we had our first snow here in Cincinnati. My last car was a 2005 STI with Dunlop M3's. I just loved them. I would look for excuses to find some non plowed parking lots! I figured I would try the all season Potenza's that came with my Legacy, but geesh. They are just not going to work for me at all. It's not that horrible in Cincinnati, but we get our share of larger storms and I have to drive quite a bit in early in the mornings before they clear the roads. One thing about Cincinnati is that since they aren't used to snow, they are often slow at clearing. So I'm in the same dilemma as the others here trying to figure out what's best.

 

I've learned from everyone I shouldn't go with the 18's...narrow is better people are saying. What is the best size? I will want to get wheels too, if anyone has suggestions. It would be cool to get a little of my STI flavor back during the winter with some cool wheels. Is 17 the way to go, or should I actually go narrower? The factory is 215/45R18 XL, which thankfully is too wide, because I couldn't find the M3's in that size!

 

But I thought the M3's were really great. I did find them at several places:

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Dunlop&tiremodel=SP+Winter+Sport+M3

I'm not as sure about the 3D's, but that's probably just because they are new and I have experience with the M3.. and I see that many really like the LM-60's, but we do have alot of dry driving in between the big snows, and many still say the dunlops are better for that... I saw lots voted for the Blizz' in the poll on here.

[TSiWRX]

tron, the wheel diameter should not matter (the saying "narrower is better for winter" applies to tire WIDTH, i.e. that first set of unmbers , which is the width [there's more detail to this, but for the level of this particular conversation, we can just call this how "wide" the tire is] of the tire), however, downsizing the diameter to 17-inches will give you a much wider selection.

 

"Minus-1" sizing from your 215/45/18, according to TireRack, is to go to 215/50/17. Using the Tire Size Calculator at Miata.net, the biggest apparent difference is about a half-inch increase in sidewall, favoring the 17s, with virtually the same radius and diameter. Circumference also increases by a half-inch, via the calculator, resulting in a +0.6% difference in speedometer reading.

 

I think that the smarter thing to do, given limited tire availability as well as increased pricing for the 18s, would be to downsize to the recommended 17s. Sticking with 215-width would be just fine, and if dropping to 205s, you'd again start to see limited selection, with no true favoring in terms of pricing, and regardless of the profile selection, you'll see more speedo bias, too.

[tron79]

tron, the wheel diameter should not matter (the saying "narrower is better for winter" applies to tire WIDTH, i.e. that first set of unmbers , which is the width [there's more detail to this, but for the level of this particular conversation, we can just call this how "wide" the tire is] of the tire), however, downsizing the diameter to 17-inches will give you a much wider selection.

 

"Minus-1" sizing from your 215/45/18, according to TireRack, is to go to 215/50/17. Using the Tire Size Calculator at Miata.net, the biggest apparent difference is about a half-inch increase in sidewall, favoring the 17s, with virtually the same radius and diameter. Circumference also increases by a half-inch, via the calculator, resulting in a +0.6% difference in speedometer reading.

 

I think that the smarter thing to do, given limited tire availability as well as increased pricing for the 18s, would be to downsize to the recommended 17s. Sticking with 215-width would be just fine, and if dropping to 205s, you'd again start to see limited selection, with no true favoring in terms of pricing, and regardless of the profile selection, you'll see more speedo bias, too.

 

Thanks so much Tsi+Wrx. That was a huge help.

[TSiWRX]

^ Best of luck! No need to thank me, fellow Buckeye!

[grimsleeper]

+1

I run 205/50/17 Dunlop WinterSport 3D's on the stock rims for snowx and couldn't be happier with the predictability they give. All bets are off on straight ice, though.

 

tron, the wheel diameter should not matter (the saying "narrower is better for winter" applies to tire WIDTH, i.e. that first set of unmbers , which is the width [there's more detail to this, but for the level of this particular conversation, we can just call this how "wide" the tire is] of the tire), however, downsizing the diameter to 17-inches will give you a much wider selection.

 

"Minus-1" sizing from your 215/45/18, according to TireRack, is to go to 215/50/17. Using the Tire Size Calculator at Miata.net, the biggest apparent difference is about a half-inch increase in sidewall, favoring the 17s, with virtually the same radius and diameter. Circumference also increases by a half-inch, via the calculator, resulting in a +0.6% difference in speedometer reading.

 

I think that the smarter thing to do, given limited tire availability as well as increased pricing for the 18s, would be to downsize to the recommended 17s. Sticking with 215-width would be just fine, and if dropping to 205s, you'd again start to see limited selection, with no true favoring in terms of pricing, and regardless of the profile selection, you'll see more speedo bias, too.

[dmp]

Hehe, wanna see them in action?

 

If you couldn't tell, I like mine!

 

 

as an aside - where did you attach the strap?

[dmp]

Thanks so much Tsi+Wrx. That was a huge help.

 

 

I found a set of used OEM 17" from this board and picked them up for my 'snow' set, to replace the 18"s that came w/ the car. Check the for sale section - there are several sets there. The Stock 17s are probably the cheapest wheel you can get - especially if you're local to the seller.

[TSiWRX]

^ +1. And those stocker 5-spoke 17s are pretty darned durable, too.

 

My wife's crashed through all sorts of potholes and what-not - one that shredded a 225/45, properly inflated, Falken ZIEX ZE-512 - and the rim's come out totally intact.

 

They're a good bargain, for sure.

 

+1

I run 205/50/17 Dunlop WinterSport 3D's on the stock rims for snowx and couldn't be happier with the predictability they give. All bets are off on straight ice, though.

 

^ +1 on the ice....I also think that ice is the 3Ds biggest weak-point.

 

Which is an interesting thing, actually.

 

It's understandable that ice would be the 3Ds biggest weak-point.

 

But what I don't get is the 3Ds rather high ranking (correct me on this if I'm wrong, outahere , on ice, with the H-speed rated formulation, at least).

 

If that's the case, then I'd hate to be on ice, with any other "Performance Winter!"

 

But then again, this also goes to show just how variable ice can be, as a winter-surface.

[dmp]

^ The secret to traction on the ice is, there's no secrets. Chains or spikes FTW. Anyone use snowboots before? Looks pretty neat.

 

http://www.snobootz.com/videos.php