Dunlop Winter Sport 3D any good?

[TSiWRX]

From Mr Durst, a fellow LGTer, in Sweden, as-posted on LegacyGT.org -

 

 

Read a Swedish rewiev on a tires test yesterday, here´s the result (winner to fifth place):

 

Tyres with studds (Studded tyres)

1) Michelin X-Ice North XIN2 = 7,5 points (of 10 possible)

2) Nokian Hakkapelitta 7 = 7,5 points

3) Continental ContiWinterViking 2 = 7,4 points

4) Pirelli Winter Carving Edge = 7,4 points

5) Vredestein Arctrac = 7,4 points

 

Tyres with no studds (Unstudded tyres)

1) Micheline X-Ice XI2 = 6,4 points (of 10 possible)

2) Nokian Hakkapelitta R = 6,1 points

3) Yokohama Ice Guard ig30 = 6,0 points

4) Continental ContiViking Contact 5 = 6,0 points

5) Bridgestone Blizzak Nordic WN-01 = 5,7 points

 

Tyres for the Autobahn

1) Continental ContiWinter TS830 = 5,3 points (of 10 possible)

2) Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D = 4,8 points

3) Pirelli Sottozero Winter 210 = 5,0 points

4) Goddyear Ultra Grip 7+ = 5 points

5) Michelin Primacy Alpin = 4,8 points

 

In my opinion it was a serious test, total 27 different tires were.

 

Note that some of these tires are not available in the North-American market.....

[max]

Dunlop WS 3D were very high on my list, I almost bought them a couple of weeks back. I opted for Swedish Gislaved NordFrost 5 instead. I know I took a bit of a hit in performance, but deciding factor was that a friend of mine has them on his Impreza and he says they are relatively quiet for a winter tire. I have a Hakka 1 on a van, you can not beat the performance, got me out of trouble near Collingwood in a blizzard (ski trip), but they are LOUD. Besides , NF 5 were 25% cheaper in Markham. I know, call me a cheapskate.

[TSiWRX]

^ Please let us know how those do.

 

The 3Ds (I run 225/45/17 sizing) are, I think, relatively quiet, for me....but I'm used to the summertime drone of my Hankook RS-2s.

[TCSKIBIKE]

I am from VT and was disappointed by the performance of my Dunlops in the snow. Be it I have driven smaller wheeled cars with Nokia Hakkapalittas. I disliked the Dunlops so much that I used them all summer with intentions of getting different ones this winter.

[SubOperator]

I like my 3Ds on Legacy and bought another set in 18 for Tribeca few weeks ago. I used Nokian WRs before and Dunlop's are a bit more noisy but grip very well in snow, wet and dry roads.

[lil_z_33]

used m3's for a couple seasons on my altima with like 2" ground clearance...never got stuck, no issues anywhere...these tires rock...canadian winter at that!!!

[outahere]

...... I opted for Swedish Gislaved NordFrost 5 instead. I know I took a bit of a hit in performance, but deciding factor was that a friend of mine has them on his Impreza and he says they are relatively quiet for a winter tire. .........

 

Studded, or non-studded?

[max]

Gislaved non studded, we can not drive on studded tires here in Ontario. And we don't really need to. If you go to canadian forums, this tire gets good reviews. Gislaved is Swedish branch of Continental tires. Looks like it will not be long before I try them, it gets below freezing in the mornings lately, kind of early for that.

[outahere]

In the most recent winter tire test from CR, they ranked the X-Ice Xi2 ahead of the Blizzak WS60 in both ice braking and snow traction. This is a surprise, as I would have expected the WS60 to be better than the Xi2 on ice because of its multicell compound. .......

 

TireRack has posted their latest studless winter tire test on their website, and they rank the WS60 ahead of the Xi2 for braking on ice, opposite of CR's ranking. A score of 100 vs 84.9. They only tested 3 tires, the WS60, the Xi2, and the Continental Extreme Winter Contact

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=122&

[__raj]

Gislaved non studded

 

Let us know who they work out.

 

FYI, The General Altimax Artic are rebadges of the Gislaved Nordic 5's.

[TSiWRX]

TireRack has posted their latest studless winter tire test on their website, and they rank the WS60 ahead of the Xi2 for braking on ice, opposite of CR's ranking. A score of 100 vs 84.9. They only tested 3 tires, the WS60, the Xi2, and the Continental Extreme Winter Contact

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=122&

 

Wondering if it's just differences in the "ice" surface - or how, exactly, the tests were conducted?

 

What made me suspect the CR test was the fact that at-introduction, in a manufacturer staged press driving-impression forum, if you'll recall, the Xi2s were compared against WS-60s which were shaved to a comparable depth.

 

But from what little I know of winter tire testing, I've read that "ice" tests are really hard to standardize.

 

Dunno.

[jproy12]

I finally went with toyo Observe GO2 Plus, i got a sweet deal on them used, 11/32 left on them!

 

I will probably get the Continental ExtremeWinterContactfor the GF, they got a good review and i can get them dirt cheap here in Canada!!

 

I'll report more when we get snow!!!

 

JP

[pix0r]

I'm looking for winter tires and have a somewhat unique situation.. I live in Southern California but frequently drive up to Mammoth Mountain to ski/board. A handful of times each year I'll encounter pretty bad conditions up there, either ice or deep snow, which is why I want winter tires for these drives. Problem is, there is 5 hours of dry highway driving to get there, so I'm worried that a soft snow/ice tire will wear out really quickly. I want to be safe on the roads when there are bad conditions but I don't want to buy new tires every year. Are the performance snow tires much worse in these rough conditions, so much that it would be unsafe to drive on mountain roads in deep snow or ice? Would a tire like the X-Ice or Blizzak wear out too quickly with my highway driving? What if I didn't have time to swap tires between consecutive weekend trips and drove another few hundred miles on dry road between the mountain trips?

 

Thanks for any advice

[max]

Let us know who they work out.

 

FYI, The General Altimax Artic are rebadges of the Gislaved Nordic 5's.

 

I did some looking and Altimax are very similar to NordFrost 3. Thread of NF5 is different. General and Gislaved are both part of Continental. I do not know the difference in performance between NF3 and NF5. I will let you know in the spring how NF5 do.

For all season tires I have Yoko Advan A82 (came with the car). I agree with the review that they are noisy. Other then that the performance is very good, but I am at 8.5k km, so they are still fresh.

[outahere]

I'm looking for winter tires and have a somewhat unique situation.. I live in Southern California but frequently drive up to Mammoth Mountain to ski/board. A handful of times each year I'll encounter pretty bad conditions up there, either ice or deep snow, which is why I want winter tires for these drives. Problem is, there is 5 hours of dry highway driving to get there, so I'm worried that a soft snow/ice tire will wear out really quickly. I want to be safe on the roads when there are bad conditions but I don't want to buy new tires every year. Are the performance snow tires much worse in these rough conditions, so much that it would be unsafe to drive on mountain roads in deep snow or ice? Would a tire like the X-Ice or Blizzak wear out too quickly with my highway driving? What if I didn't have time to swap tires between consecutive weekend trips and drove another few hundred miles on dry road between the mountain trips?

 

Thanks for any advice

 

The ice&snow tires, such as the Blizzak WS60 or Michelin Xi2 will wear quickly under your scenario. Look at the "performance winters", such as the Blizzak LM60, the Michelin Pilot Alpin, the Michelin Primacy Alpin, the Pirelli SottoZero, the Dunlop 3D, etc. They will be much better in snow than an all season, and significantly better on ice and cold wet pavement than an all season. The trade off is that those winter tires with the best dry performance and dry pavement durability will give up some snow traction, and especially ice traction, to get that dry performance.

[TSiWRX]

^ What do you think about the Nokian WR-G2, for pix0r's specific needs?

 

-----

 

outahere -

 

TireRack has posted their latest studless winter tire test on their website, and they rank the WS60 ahead of the Xi2 for braking on ice, opposite of CR's ranking. A score of 100 vs 84.9. They only tested 3 tires, the WS60, the Xi2, and the Continental Extreme Winter Contact

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=122&

 

Wondering if it's just differences in the "ice" surface - or how, exactly, the tests were conducted?

 

What made me suspect the CR test was the fact that at-introduction, in a manufacturer staged press driving-impression forum, if you'll recall, the Xi2s were compared against WS-60s which were shaved to a comparable depth.

 

But from what little I know of winter tire testing, I've read that "ice" tests are really hard to standardize.

 

Dunno.

 

^ I just noticed something - I read the article again, and it seemed awfully familiar. What I'd locked on to during my original reading was this sentence: "The Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 was found to be very similar to the X-Ice Xi2 overall, but with slightly less acceleration and braking traction in our dynamic driving conditions." - which I recognized, but could not place.

 

I was doing some more reading, while posting to the "studded/non-studded" thread, when I again re-read the above test report, and noticed this ---->

 

Check the date of the posting - January 29, 2009.

 

That's why it seemed familiar. I'd read it last year.

 

Are you SubLGT on NASIOC? I'm, of course, LGT+WRX there - I noticed that SubLGT's posting in the TireRack winter-tire thread, regarding this year's CR results, generated this response from Luke, the official TireRack representative on NASIOC:

 

The X-Ice XI2 does very well and occupies the #1 position on our website as well but, where it wins out is with less tread squirm and lower road noise than the WS60. In the end both are excellent choices for winter tires. here's is some other info about the CR tire test article

 

The November 2009 issue of Consumer Reports includes their annual tire test. However it should be noted that while Consumer Reports tire categories are listed as All-Season Tires, Performance All-Season and Winter Tires, their actual rankings have mixed tires from several traditional tire categories.

 

Their all-season tire categories appear to be defined solely by the speed rating (S&T, H or V) of the exact tire tested, which has resulted in mixing passenger, touring and performance tires together. Unfortunately this ultimately compares all of the tires without consideration of their primary intended use, as well as results in some H- and V-speed rated passenger and touring tires finding themselves pitted against competitors they were never intended to face. Additionally, Consumer Reports single winter tire category lumps Q-, R-, S-, T- and H-speed rated Studable Winter, Studless Ice and Snow and Performance Winter tires together, again confusing the categories.

 

It’s also important to remember that the overall scores are weighted to emphasize individual tire capabilities Consumer Reports’ considers as safety-related characteristics, including dry and wet braking, handling and resistance to hydroplaning. Regional characteristics that are only important in selected parts of the country, such as snow and ice traction, are considered a lower priority and receive less weight in the overall scores. General characteristics, such as ride comfort, noise, rolling resistance, tread life and price receive the least emphasis in the overall scores.

 

However considering the time of the year, many drivers are now finalizing their plans for which tires they’ll select to help them make it through this winter. Winter weather often subjects drivers living in America’s Snowbelt to the most challenging road conditions they’ll face all year. Getting stuck in the snow or sliding out of control on ice are situations drivers just don’t want to experience. This leads many Snowbelt drivers to focus on snow and ice traction to select tires that deliver the best traction when road conditions are at their worst.

 

Consumer Reports indicates their ratings are now designed to compare individual performance characteristics of any tire line with all others (indicating all tires were rated on the same scale). Unfortunately the specific tire performance characteristics being rated are not always presented in the same order in the magazine or on the Consumer Reports website. Therefore callers should be advised to make sure they are comparing the named characteristic, rather than simply a column location in the charts.

 

I’ve sorted all of the tires offered by Tire Rack into their traditional categories in the attached spreadsheet. I then took the Consumer Reports ratings (without weighting any of the individual results for importance) and aligned the data so each performance characteristic is presented in the same column. In this format you’ll notice the Consumer Reports rankings and Tire Rack’s tire survey results often show similar trends.

 

Michelin should be commended for having earned the top position of each Consumer Reports tire category rated this year. Perhaps it’s confirmation of why these same Michelin tire lines currently are rated first (or second) in their respective Tire Rack consumer survey categories.

 

 

Consumer Reports Rankings Tire Line Tire Rack Survey Rankings

1st Performance All-Season (V) MI Pilot Exalto A/S 1st High Performance All-Season

1st Performance All-Season (H) MI Primacy MXV4 1st Grand Touring All-Season

1st All-Season Tires (S & T) MI HydroEdge 2nd Passenger All-Season

1st Winter Tires MI X-Ice Xi2 1st Studless Ice and Snow

 

Additionally when the tires are separated into their conventional tire performance categories, some of the other top lines in Consumer Reports rankings also hold high positions in Tire Rack survey results.

 

3rd All-Season Tires (S & T) PI P4 Four Seasons 1st Standard Touring All-Season

2nd Winter Tires GE Altimax Artic 1st Studable Winter

 

Am I reading that right? are they backpedaling?

 

Also, it's funny how the "Consumer Survey" postings totally change tones when "professional" reports come out. Last season, I think I was among only a handful which gave a fair report of the Xi2s, and near 7 out of 10 would say things like "these tires suck!" - now, it seems, everyone's jumped on the bandwagon, to say how supposedly great these tires are. :lol:

 

And people ask me why I tend to trust my local and other known enthusiasts' opinions more that the votes of random strangers.

[outahere]

^ What do you think about the Nokian WR-G2, for pix0r's specific needs?.........

 

I just noticed something - I read the article again, and it seemed awfully familiar..............Check the date of the posting - January 29, 2009.

 

Are you SubLGT on NASIOC?

 

The Nokian is another alternative, albeit a very expensive one that based on the German ADAC testing offers no compelling advantages over other performance winters. And good luck finding a Nokian dealer in southern California.

 

The latest Tirerack winter test was run in late January of 2009 in northern Sweden, and only posted a few days ago on their website. They traveled all that distance, and only tested 3 tires. Seems like a wasted opportunity. Another curious thing is that they did their ice braking tests from parking lot speeds (10mph) whereas the annual Scandinavian tests do their ice braking from speeds of 31 mph (50 km/hr).

 

Yes, I am SubLGT at Nasioc. I've been outed.

[outahere]

Here is an interesting article about warm weather testing of the Pirelli 240 SottoZero winter tire (V rated), and how it stands up to police pursuit scenarios.

 

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/articlearchive/details.aspx?ID=574

[TSiWRX]

^ I'm not very familiar with the Pirelli winter line - I have only had a chance to drive an STi in the clear, with what I seem to recall were the 240s. My impressions were the same as that of the vehicle owner's, that in the clear, it seemed to behave exactly like a good all-season. I could not readily differentiate between it and my 3Ds, due to both the rather short and easy-going session, as well as the handling differences between the STi and my LGT.

 

That article, though, certainly would seem to validate the vehicle owner's opinions, as well as his stated wintering goals.

 

The Nokian is another alternative, albeit a very expensive one that based on the German ADAC testing offers no compelling advantages over other performance winters. And good luck finding a Nokian dealer in southern California.

 

^ I always miss the absolutely obvious.

 

We get a lot of love for the WR and the second-generation tires here in Cleveland - I think that drivers' innate wintering capabilities, plus our local club's bend towards really liking tires that offer good value (not in terms of outright purchase, but rather, in terms of treadwear, it seems, for these tires, in running as true all-seasons, through all 4 seasons), may be our bias.

 

 

The latest Tirerack winter test was run in late January of 2009 in northern Sweden, and only posted a few days ago on their website. They traveled all that distance, and only tested 3 tires. Seems like a wasted opportunity. Another curious thing is that they did their ice braking tests from parking lot speeds (10mph) whereas the annual Scandinavian tests do their ice braking from speeds of 31 mph (50 km/hr).

 

Yes, I am SubLGT at Nasioc. I've been outed.

 

^

[outahere]

................We get a lot of love for the WR and the second-generation tires here in Cleveland - I think that drivers' innate wintering capabilities, plus our local club's bend towards really liking tires that offer good value (not in terms of outright purchase, but rather, in terms of treadwear, it seems, for these tires, in running as true all-seasons, through all 4 seasons), may be our bias........

 

In the German ADAC tests, the lowest wearing tire was the H speed rated Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3, and the WRG2 was tied for 5th place in the durability test. But I am not sure at what temperature those durability tests were performed. I would expect the V rated performance winters, such as the Pilot Alpin PA3 and Pirelli 240 to have decent wear in warm weather, since they are only one step away from being an all-season tire.

[TSiWRX]

Indeed.

 

It's all part of some complex equation - if we are to believe what C&D cited of Michelin's technicians, that compound is what has the biggest impact on ice/packed-snow traction (exclusive of mechanical means of achieving higher marks, such as studs), then I would also imagine that is going to be a compromise between traction under such conditions, and wear. But look at the 1.6 durability score of the 3D, and I am wondering exactly how to reconcile the fact that it led that pack in terms of ice traction....

 

Is there a test that cross-compares a single tire model, such as the 3Ds, between H and V speed ratings?

[outahere]

Here is how ADAC determines tire wear:

 

"Mehrere Sätze Reifen laufen 12.000 Kilometer auf Serienfahrzeugen. Die Profiltiefe wird regelmäßig auf dem gesamten Reifenumfang ermittelt und danach die Dauerhaltbarkeit beurteilt. Die theoretisch zu erreichende Laufleistung errechnet sich aus der Abnutzung bis zur gesetzlichen Mindestprofiltiefe von 1,6 Millimeter."

 

I only understand 3 words in the above paragraph: kilometer, reifen, and theoretisch.

 

This is how google translates it:

 

"Multiple sets tires run 12,000 kilometers on production vehicles. The tread is regularly assessed throughout the periphery of the tire and then assess the durability. The theoretically calculated to be attained in mileage from the wear and tear to the legal minimum tread depth of 1.6 millimeters."

 

No mention of testing temperature.

[TSiWRX]

Here is how ADAC determines tire wear:

 

"Mehrere Sätze Reifen laufen 12.000 Kilometer auf Serienfahrzeugen. Die Profiltiefe wird regelmäßig auf dem gesamten Reifenumfang ermittelt und danach die Dauerhaltbarkeit beurteilt. Die theoretisch zu erreichende Laufleistung errechnet sich aus der Abnutzung bis zur gesetzlichen Mindestprofiltiefe von 1,6 Millimeter."

 

I only understand 3 words in the above paragraph: kilometer, reifen, and theoretisch.

 

Don't forget millimeter!

 

I *knew* all those years of science was gonna pay off!

[outahere]

And here is tireracks 3rd round of winter tire testing:

 

"Our third product group compared five popular Ultra High Performance All Season tires, designed to provide year-round traction for performance coupes and sedans, including light snow."

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=124&

[TSiWRX]

^ A quickie reply....

 

Given C&D's comparo of Michelin tires for winter traction, I now no longer have much faith, at all, in the wintering capabilities of the Bridgestone RE960AS.

 

 

---

 

Aside: Parking lot repainting near me has turned that weekend-deserted workplace into an impromptu fun-zone, cones and all. Given the mild temperatures we're having recently, judicious application of the throttle, with the 3Ds, makes for quite a bit of low-speeds fun in that cone-strewn lot. The only thing I'm sad about is a bit of tire wear.