VF52 major boost creeeeeep!!!!!!!!!

[LittleBlueGT]

there is some kind of a mechanical issue somewhere. tuning isn't gonna fix it.

 

Really.

 

I know that, have known it for a while.

 

The mechanical issue is the car is now too efficient, and the turbo creeps. There is no mechanical fault to fix, other then putting stock cans, stock intake, and possibly stock DP back on.

[mwiener2]

True. Wish I had the car for a week, then I could easily play around with stuff like that.

 

Sounds like you spent the time to really get in there and check it all out. Couldn't even done a simple test to rule out parts you just assume are working properly.

 

ECU's glitch sometimes. Just because you typed 0% in doesn't mean it's not putting out something. And you can't argue this because you didn't check it to rule it out.

[LittleBlueGT]

Sounds like you spent the time to really get in there and check it all out. Couldn't even done a simple test to rule out parts you just assume are working properly.

 

ECU's glitch sometimes. Just because you typed 0% in doesn't mean it's not putting out something. And you can't argue this because you didn't check it to rule it out.

 

I didn't update the thread of everything I did.

 

It is not the ECU, it is not the actuator, or anything else. It creeps. I had the same thread on NASIOC, and I had plenty of people pm me with similar problems.

 

I am getting annoyed with you tonight.

[NSFW]

Is 18 psi a problem for this turbo? If not, consider just using an MBC for boost control. You can still hook up the BCS in parallel if you want to run less boost at high altitude or something like that.

[LittleBlueGT]

Is 18 psi a problem for this turbo? If not, consider just using an MBC for boost control. You can still hook up the BCS in parallel if you want to run less boost at high altitude or something like that.

 

It is a problem on our gas. At 10.8:1 AFR the timing was 9 tapering to 13 at red-line. Even then we got the odd tick of knock.

 

In the summer when the creep wasn't bad (and you usually run less timing) it was 12 tapering to 17 or 18. Weird, but the car did not like the extra heat, at all!

 

We just put a Perrin TMIC on it, and though it helped a touch, it really didn't solve the problem, still didn't work with the gas we have.

 

The two solutions I laid out was:

 

1) buy a used VF52, and then we can port the IWG so it doesn't creep, then swap housings

 

or

 

2) get alky injection and a MBC and 3-port EBCS, and just run the turbo at 20 tapering to whatever it will do w/o worries of our crap gas

 

The problem with trying to control boost w/o a MBC on his car is the varying degrees of load the engine sees.

 

In 3rd gear it was creeping at 4500 rpm, in 4th at 4200 rpm. When it got colder it would creep at 4000 rpm.

 

I could try and tune td and WGDC around it (all the while still running crappy timing that really bothered me), but then when he would do a 2nd gear run, the boost would dip and then rise again due to the creep not happening until 5500 rpm due to less load.

 

It was just impossible.

 

The only problem with alky is that even though I will tune for 11.5:1 AFR and run about 2 degrees less timing then I can (altogether easily leaving 20 whp on the table) it still could turn bad in the even of a failure. So I really have to educate him how to check for leaks, and ensure everything is top-notch.

 

The good thing is the car is a city car, and it just mostly sees boost in the lower gears. If the alky flow sensor reads low, it will cut boost to WG, which is about 9 psi (assuming he is not beyond the point where it creeps). he will definitely notice that!

[mwiener2]

So since you did magical stuff to the car but decided not to tell anyone about.... but still whine about how you can't fix the problem

 

 

did you put a line between the turbo and wastegate and bypass everything else?

[testes1010]

It is a problem on our gas. At 10.8:1 AFR the timing was 9 tapering to 13 at red-line. Even then we got the odd tick of knock.

 

Wow, your gas does suck. Even with my car leaning out to 12:1(due to insufficient fuel capacity over 4500rpm) I'm still running 23 degrees of timing at redline(22psi tapering to 17psi).

[Boostin1657615274]

Yes did you remove the restrictor pill from the system completely? Did you run just a plain old hose from the compressor outlet to the wastegate? That's not the same as running the EBCS at 0% duty.

 

I believe the plumbing goes: compressor outlet --> pill --> tee --> and then one end of the tee goes to the actuator, the other end goes to the 2 port bleeder solenoid. Removing the pill will increase the amount of air reaching the actuator, even if the WGDC is set to 0%.

[LittleBlueGT]

So since you did magical stuff to the car but decided not to tell anyone about.... but still whine about how you can't fix the problem

 

 

did you put a line between the turbo and wastegate and bypass everything else?

 

Like I said, this was not the only thread I had going, seeing who else may have had problems.

 

Yes I still complain about a bad comp housing design from Subaru, yes we bypassed the EBCS, yes we have a plan on how to fix it.

 

Get lost!

[LittleBlueGT]

Wow, your gas does suck. Even with my car leaning out to 12:1(due to insufficient fuel capacity over 4500rpm) I'm still running 23 degrees of timing at redline(22psi tapering to 17psi).

 

I know, I know. I can't run that timing with 50/50 meth either. (only about 21 degrees)

 

FWIW I just got off the phone with Christian at COBB, and he said the gas in the NE tunes like 100 octane race gas, vs the stuff we get here.

[LittleBlueGT]

Yes did you remove the restrictor pill from the system completely? Did you run just a plain old hose from the compressor outlet to the wastegate? That's not the same as running the EBCS at 0% duty.

 

I believe the plumbing goes: compressor outlet --> pill --> tee --> and then one end of the tee goes to the actuator, the other end goes to the 2 port bleeder solenoid. Removing the pill will increase the amount of air reaching the actuator, even if the WGDC is set to 0%.

 

I know full well. And we did test it. Actually it helped with boost creep slightly when we removed one of the stock pills (two pill system from OEM). Then going with a direct line made no difference.

 

Thanks though.

[testes1010]

FWIW I just got off the phone with Christian at COBB, and he said the gas in the NE tunes like 100 octane race gas, vs the stuff we get here.

 

I've been told that before by some other 'PRO' tuners especially after seeing my timing maps.

 

Sadly though, BP is pulling all their stations out of So. Indiana, now to find another non-e10 93 that has consistent fuel quality.

[tommypenguin]

Like I said, this was not the only thread I had going, seeing who else may have had problems.

Yes I still complain about a bad comp housing design from Subaru, yes we bypassed the EBCS, yes we have a plan on how to fix it.

Get lost!

What were the results when you ran a line directly from the comp housing to the wastegate? You didn’t say. Did it run wg boost or did it spike? If it ran wastegate it’s the bcs, if it still overboosted it’s a bad wastegate or the flapper is hitting the divider. It is definitely mechanical as you claim to know but you’re looking in the wrong places, it is for sure either bcs, wastegate, or dp divider, I would forget about everything else you are looking into. Don’t get so upset when someone tries to help you out, especially when they are pointing you in the right direction….

[rao]

It is good to see that some things never change

[LittleBlueGT]

 

What were the results when you ran a line directly from the comp housing to the wastegate? You didn’t say. Did it run wg boost or did it spike? If it ran wastegate it’s the bcs, if it still overboosted it’s a bad wastegate or the flapper is hitting the divider. It is definitely mechanical as you claim to know but you’re looking in the wrong places, it is for sure either bcs, wastegate, or dp divider, I would forget about everything else you are looking into. Don’t get so upset when someone tries to help you out, especially when they are pointing you in the right direction….

 

Weiner has been driving me nuts, hence the comment.

 

The turbo still creeped essentially just as bad when a line was run direct from the comp housing to the actuator. Like I said before, we checked the actuator and got a good 12-13 mm movement out of it at 10ish psi.

 

FWIW I got quite a few pms on NASIOC from people with similar problems.

 

-it is not the EBCS

-it is not the actuator

-it is not the divider in the DP (could be for some, but not for us as there is 0 interference)

 

THE TURBO CREEPS, case closed!

[tommypenguin]

I’m still not convinced its turbo creep yet but could be a possibility for sure. Since it’s only a 5 minute job to switch out wastegates, I would give it a shot. When you tested the wastegate, did you have the dp off so you could visibly see the flapper open? Of did you just test it while the dp was mounted? I would also try swapping the dp’s with even a stock one if he has it. If he keeps getting over boosting after swapping dp’s and wastegates, the only thing mechanical left would be turbo creep.

[LittleBlueGT]

I’m still not convinced its turbo creep yet but could be a possibility for sure. Since it’s only a 5 minute job to switch out wastegates, I would give it a shot. When you tested the wastegate, did you have the dp off so you could visibly see the flapper open? Of did you just test it while the dp was mounted? I would also try swapping the dp’s with even a stock one if he has it. If he keeps getting over boosting after swapping dp’s and wastegates, the only thing mechanical left would be turbo creep.

 

 

We tested the WG with the DP off and on, the most the actuator would move was 12-13 mm, it didn't matter if it was w/ or w/o the DP. I did grind a little bit of the divider off, just to be safe, but it is not even close to touching now.

 

Everything that we did to the car to increase breathing made it worse, DP, CBE, intake, etc.... Putting stock DP back on will greatly if not completely eliminate the creep, even the stock intake helps a bit. But that is going against the whole point of modding for more power.

 

The turbo may or may not creep in stock form, but the fact is that it will creep if paired with mods that really allow it to flow well.

 

I don't mind your good natured help, I know you are not an idiot.

[Guest]

May need some WG porting. I find the procedure kinda repulsive, but I guess it may be justified in some instances.

[Boostin1657615274]

port the wastegate, it's not a big deal. with the flapper closed, spray the area with the lacquer so you know the outline of the flapper (also outline the flapper with a scribe). get an air die grinder if you want to be cheap (electric are expensive). use a carbide bit. cut the wastegate passage up to right before the edge of the flapper. Or if there's clearance, cut it beyond that and weld something on there to extend the flapper.

 

example procedure: http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/s4wastegate.htm

[mwiener2]

THE TURBO CREEPS, case closed!

 

If that were the case, then you have a bad (or really good) turbo.

 

 

There are PLENTY of WRX's with similar mods and even more other cars with VF52 swaps not experiencing creep. Something about this particular setup is causing the problem.

 

Saying "the car is simply too efficient" is the biggest load of crap. Maybe it's time your buddy took it to a competent shop cause you obviously don't know what it is and every time someone throws you an idea you've already tried that, but posted about it somewhere else.

 

Guess you thought of everything. Must be the most efficient car in the world.

[LittleBlueGT]

If that were the case, then you have a bad (or really good) turbo.

 

 

There are PLENTY of WRX's with similar mods and even more other cars with VF52 swaps not experiencing creep. Something about this particular setup is causing the problem.

 

Saying "the car is simply too efficient" is the biggest load of crap. Maybe it's time your buddy took it to a competent shop cause you obviously don't know what it is and every time someone throws you an idea you've already tried that, but posted about it somewhere else.

 

Guess you thought of everything. Must be the most efficient car in the world.

 

I can read between the lines. I have a thread in RR forums, and on NASIOC. Go read em if you want.

 

MickeyD2005 also had problems with it creeping on him, at least he had to run 0% WGDC in the upper rpm range to control boost. This car just seems to have the right combination of parts / and colder temps to cause this problem.

 

Please stop posting in my threads, you are of no help, and just a hindrance to me.

[LittleBlueGT]

port the wastegate, it's not a big deal. with the flapper closed, spray the area with the lacquer so you know the outline of the flapper (also outline the flapper with a scribe). get an air die grinder if you want to be cheap (electric are expensive). use a carbide bit. cut the wastegate passage up to right before the edge of the flapper. Or if there's clearance, cut it beyond that and weld something on there to extend the flapper.

 

example procedure: http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/s4wastegate.htm

 

That was one option, the other was to run alky and spin the turbo for all she is worth. He is going for the alky option.

 

I recommended if we were going to port, to buy a used dead VF52 ($100 or so) and port that turbine housing.

 

Thanks for the link, it is not all that hard really.

[LittleBlueGT]

Now we are seeing this (0F) outside:

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/0WGDCcreep-25.gif

 

 

He is either going with a different turbo, or getting the VF52 ported.

 

One possibility I can think of is a casting flaw that restricts WG flow a bit.

 

It sure makes good power though!

[Ridgeracer]

I can only imagine. 20 psi still @ 4500rpms for a turbo that size must be nice.

 

Good approach as far as not porting it.

[testes1010]

I can only imagine. 20 psi still @ 4500rpms for a turbo that size must be nice.

 

Its not uncommon at all for a turbo of that size.

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