IwannaSportSedan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 That may be true... but that doesn't explain the meaningless, and detrimental change for the tail lights. I can see, although I still think it is stupid, that the rear bumper needed to change for the US crash regs, and that might have justified a new reflector in the rear bumper. However, that means that the tail lights likely didn't have to change due to reflex reflector regulations, since the reflex reflectors were separate. The shape and size of the tail lighs, the number and function of the bulbs, none of it changed, except for the aesthetic of the lens and reflector body, and where the white and red sections met, as a function of height from the base of the tail light, and where that falls in relation to the full-width seam in the sedan trunk lid. JDM = fit the bodyline. Looked like it was purposefully built the right way, to meet and match. USDM = missed the body-line in an obvious way, evidently on purpose, which I cannot even FATHOM why, through any logical process. Same reason for some of the other JDM to USDM differences... why? Same reason they seem to think ugly and de-contented must equal mainstream, instead of making a mainstream car that has the options and features, AND still looks attractive while doing it. I can't seem to figure out the why behind any of it, other than sheer stupidity and/or elitism toward their own consumer base, on SOA's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 The F if I know... I'm just done with people popping on here and saying, "Yeah, it would like totally cost $40k and stuff cause those JDM things are sooo tight yo! It's like MAD money and stuff to replicate that shit, you know?" You are taking the $ too literal. The point was that with all the changes, it would bump up the price of the car. You can disagree, but there's an awful lot of assumptions in your post based on no facts whatsoever. And between the argument that the car's price would be bumped up and that the Japs are just bitter at us because of World War 2 and want to screw us over, guess which side I'm taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Which parts are assumptions? If I'm taking the $ thing too literally, then why does everyone keep saying $40k? Pick a real number then, here's your chance. How much extra do you think turn signal mirrors that already exist would cost? Power is already run to them so there's already a motor in there. How much more would JDM fenders cost? The part number and design had to be changed just for the US. So, I'd love to see where the assumptions are. A lot of people here keep saying $40k, THAT'S the assumption honestly. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 That is why I have always had a problem with the "saving $$$" argument for the Legacy's changes. Making changes costs money, it doesn't save money, until all the R&T and other expenses are amortized back, and the materials differences don't seem large enough to make much difference at all. Even if the fenders use the same amount of steel, the different toolings cost money to prototype and build. The side mirrors would have cost less to use the standard pattern that the Impreza (without signals), Forester, previous Legacy and Tribeca all use, in one form or another. the JDM cars use it, nearly as big as Tribeca's giant barn doors, and bigger than last-year's Legacy/Outback units. But instead, they re-tooled the mirrors for a fixed, non-signal unit. That COST money to develop, how much money could the materials difference possibly save? They have long had to redundant-develop dumbed-down parts for the US. I fail to see how it saves money. The US Impezas don't cost the same as the JDM impreza, or EU imprezas, because there is more at stake than just currency conversion, and all the imprezas are built in Japan, including those sold in the US. The Impreza also has fewer differences and none of the dumbed-down redundancy that the US-built Legacy does. It gets WRB paint. It gets HIDs for the STI... and JDM to USDM have few functional differences, for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Point in case: The S402's unique mesh grille is complemented by flared front fenders that have been widened an extra inch to enclose wider BBS rims and 235/40R18 Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tires. Tatsumi and his chief stylist wanted to also redesign the front bumper section to give the car an even sportier look, but a price tag of around $600,000 for the special mold that would be required quickly put an end to their dreaming. http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=127309/pageNumber=1 And that's just for a mold. If you don't vote Trump, out, you're a bigot who hates america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wish they had just finagled a bulk purchase of the K2gear front bumper cover for those few S402s... As if BMW would even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 How much more would JDM fenders cost? You'd have to ask SOA. And aren't our USDM bumpers not as shallow as the JDM-y0! bumpers cuz of US of A safety regulations? But instead, they re-tooled the mirrors for a fixed, non-signal unit. That COST money to develop, how much money could the materials difference possibly save? Again, I don't know, none of us knows, it would be a good question for SOA. Fixed unit, as in the mirror does not fold? Well, if that's the case, then yes it is cheaper because it's a cast unit with less parts and fewer needed materials. The up-front R&D which you have to admit would be minimal, I'm pretty sure, is offset by and large due to the savings of using such a design. If it wasn't, the decision would not have been made. When it comes to life, Americans tend to be more frugal than Europeans or even the Japanese, since it's JDM-y0! that we're talking about here. It's not a critique, it is an observation. Hence every single penny counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Which parts are assumptions? If I'm taking the $ thing too literally, then why does everyone keep saying $40k? Pick a real number then, here's your chance. How much extra do you think turn signal mirrors that already exist would cost? Power is already run to them so there's already a motor in there. How much more would JDM fenders cost? The part number and design had to be changed just for the US. So, I'd love to see where the assumptions are. A lot of people here keep saying $40k, THAT'S the assumption honestly. Lets forget about the 40K and instead say their is a significant enough difference in cost that the average American consumer is not willing to pay at the moment for a Legacy...If you go on the JDM legacy site I calculated 7K more for a comparable '10 JDM Legacy GT vs. USDM Legacy GT. BTW...can someone list all the differences...just thinking about them hurts my head... An to Iwannasportsedan...Japanese auto manufacturers have been saving the creme of the crop cars for years for their own markets...you might be right about a certain level of elitist Japanese pride. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05pearl Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 ...can someone list all the differences...just thinking about them hurts my head... TT - H6 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 You'd have to ask SOA. And aren't our USDM bumpers not as shallow as the JDM-y0! bumpers cuz of US of A safety regulations?I believe so but I wanted to know why they made a new mold just for the US for the fenders. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Again, I don't know, none of us knows, it would be a good question for SOA. Fixed unit, as in the mirror does not fold? Well, if that's the case, then yes it is cheaper because it's a cast unit with less parts and fewer needed materials. The up-front R&D which you have to admit would be minimal, I'm pretty sure, is offset by and large due to the savings of using such a design. If it wasn't, the decision would not have been made. When it comes to life, Americans tend to be more frugal than Europeans or even the Japanese, since it's JDM-y0! that we're talking about here. It's not a critique, it is an observation. Hence every single penny counts. Agreed, I didn't figure anyone here had special insight... If an S402 bumper cover requires so much money to create a new tooling, a mirror change requires a new tooling, too. Plus the salaries pro-rated, and facilities to do that work. I am not so sure the R&D was so minimal, compared to using a largely existing design. I am not sure that the savings are as high as we would think. I am also not sure that their decision making capabilites are so infallible, which is why I brought up the JDM vs USDM 08-09 Tail light issue... Their decision making seems suspect to me already... Hell, look at what their decision making did to the over-all design, and the option content for the car, even aside from the side mirror design. I used to think that people and companies in general could be trusted to make good decisions, even if they were hard decisions, in general best interests... I am not so convinced anymore. Ulterior motives, errant focus, blind and ineffective cost cutting, and even perhaps incompetence... all can affect anybody in any job. Look at GM. One of the largest companies EVER was incompetent enough to get to the point of tax-payer bail out, and bankruptcy, and they still appear not to have learned the lessons. I have not been convinced that SOA is on the ball with product planning decisions, nor that "they know best" automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 You have to wonder how much retooling the assembly lines in the US really had to undergo for the USDM Legacy. Think RHD vs LHD, but I suppose you could make the case that they also retooled for Europe as well in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIMITED Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 guysthe engineers are sitting there receiving their salaries either way, might as well make them work.Retooling is not a an issue for car companies. They use the same assembly line.I used to work for Honda in Alliston ON. and we used to assemble RHD Acura MDX's here in Canada for export to Japan(Asia). They are just using the resources they allready have have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Great. They have people on the payroll, so might as well put them to work screwing things around, for no other reason than employment and facility justification? that's great decision making, right there. How about using the resources to make the cars BETTER, or at least a better value, rather than making them look uglier, and then claiming that they have to de-content the car to keep prices down, in line with their new competition targets, in '10 Legacy's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 It's settled....I'm moving to Nippon yo...:lol: "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaduba Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 It frustrates me that the options I want are available just not in the USA. SOA needs to get their thinking caps on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 They threw those away into their green-recycling-bins at their zero-landfill factory long ago. The thinking caps are compost, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Great. They have people on the payroll, so might as well put them to work screwing things around, for no other reason than employment and facility justification? I bet its as simple as that. I really do. Sad really, but I bet the people who have those jobs are happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If I had that job, I would be happier making the product as good as it's potential could be, rather than doing busywork of making uglier fenders, or tail lights that don't jive with the body lines, and other nonsense. Maybe better than being unemployed, but still not a great favor, especially if it hurts the company's reputation and image, and hinders business, rather than generates new business, and maintains existing customer bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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