Unknown ECU ID after uninstalling Accessport?

[Aex1]

Hi, guys! I really need your help, please.

 

Almost one year I'm a happy owner of Subaru Outback 2.5XT 2005 AT. Most of the time it was protuned by a well known tuner from here (I mean, the forum, thanks to that man) on basis of the Accessport and was feeling good.

 

But became the time for trying out the Open Source tune possibilities. There are so many maps already plus Infamous1 experience:). Well, nothing serious, I thought first. I uninstalled my Accessport v2 from the car and began with EcuFlash. First attempt... "Interface closed." OK, not waiting another thing:lol:. But suddenly, making dances for connecting to the ECU, I noticed that even Learning View can't communicate with my ECU. (After one year of good connections!) Further - worse. RomRaider Logger couldn't do this ether:mad:! Literally, it was written:

 

“ECU ID of 2F12515106 not found. Your ECU is not currently supported.” (Learning View.)

 

“Unknown ECU ID”. (RomRaider Logger.) Frankly, is was connected to this ECU, but with few functionality: no Feedback corrections, etc., all tables with asterisks.)

 

I compared my original ECU ID, obtained last year during many tests and logging (I mean, I didn't download yet my ROM before, only saw it, at Learning Vew, etc.), with this one. It was different only by one number! My original ECU ID is 2F12505106, and this one (“faulty”) is 2F12515106. And to the ECU ID of 2F12505106 corresponds ROM ID A2WC500C, and to the ECU ID of 2F12515106 corresponds … nothing!

 

Well, what I did:

 

1). Unistalled and installed EcuFlash (various versions), completely removing it and then installing with fresh drivers.

 

2). Married and unmarried Accessport (various times and with various maps).

 

3). Tried different VAG cables (with Accessport installed the cable was recognized as a Tactrix cable, but is not a real Tactrix cable, with the same drivers. For logging it served perfectly during last year. But without Accessport I can’t even log with it!)

 

4). Changed the system language from metric to standard (I mean, all units now at the book are standard, not metric).

 

5). Opened RomRaider ECU definitions by Word, found my ROM ID there and changed corresponded ECU ID from 2F12505106 to “requested” one: 2F12515106. Well, now RomRaider logger yes, recognized this new made ECU ID and “it’s” ROM ID A2WC500C, but still with few functionality: no asterisks tables. Besides, I don’t like the idea to begin my tuning by correcting ECU definitions, made by Sir Merchgod!

 

So, resumen: with the Accessport married to the ECU, this one is recognizied by Learning View, RomRaider, etc. and is capable for logging. Without Accessport the same ECU, with the same cable is unknown for the same programs! Who knows, why??

 

Finally, I reverted to Accessport Stage 2(everything is recognized and functioning perfectly now, as it was before), but still very disappointed… Seems like some kind of lock from Accessport…

 

Any clues, guys? What should I do? Forget about Open Source tune and be happy with Stage 2 AP? Or maybe something different?

 

Guru, please, any thought?

[Aex1]

Anyone, please?

 

Well, to be more comprehensive after such a long history.

 

That was my usual LV when the ECU was married to AP:

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3612202.jpg

 

And this was the LV after I unmarried AP (the cable is the same!).

 

Don't bother the different COM Port, on COM Port 3 all the same.

 

Well, naturally, I preffered the first picture and have it now. But why did that happen??

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3612203.jpg

[Aex1]

So no gurus, apparently:confused:?

 

Some more explications, to be more clear.

 

1). The ECU was tuned by Cobb's maps and thier variants, made by e-tuner. It was possible to log it by RomRaider, AccessTuner Race (only Cobb's maps) and monitor it by Learning View.

 

2). After one year I decided to try out Open Source, but couldn't download my stock ROM. At the same time, I noticed that RomRaider and Learning View couldn't see my ECU, taking it for some allien ECU, different by one number. (And, naturally, AccessTuner Race couldn't do this, either.)

 

3). I couldn't read my ROM, so I couldn't change it, keep it at hard drive, etc. My ECU definitions correction was only an attempt to resolve the issue, I didn't reflash my ECU by mickeyd map for the reasons above.

 

4). Now I came back to the previous position with AP installed and ECU well recognizied by all those programs, but still very concerned, why was impossible to read my ECU?

 

The bottom line: obviously, if LV and RR can communicate with "unmarried" ECU, EcuFlash could do it, too. And if they can't, EcuFlash can't either. That's why I was telling about LV and RR so much. Thanks.

 

Maybe, you know the clue?

[merchgod]

The issue is that your ROM version after unmarrying the AP is one that has not been submitted by anyone else for inclusion into RomRaider and Learning View. Remember, Subaru can (and usually does) make various updates to the ROM for a specific car (in this case a USDM 2005 Outback XT). Each of those versions has to be accounted for in the software. The only way to do that is for someone to pull that particular ROM with Ecuflash and submit it so it can be worked on and definitions added during the next update.

 

The reason why it worked with the AP is because apparently the AP flashes only a single ROM version (whatever Cobb picks for that car) and does not tune the existing ROM version on the ECU. So, that one that Cobb picked happened to be supported by RomRaider/LV already. When you unmarry the AP, it puts back the original ROM that was on the car (version 2). That version happened to not be supported.

 

Someone has already submitted that particular version you have, so support will be available during the next RR def update and LV update (probably in about a month or so). Either that, or you can update to a newer ROM revision that is already supported as long as you make sure it is the same market (USDM), year (05), model/trim (OBXT), and tranny.

 

Note: The issue you have reading the ROM with Ecuflash is not related to the issue of not being supported by RR/LV. There are many reasons why an Ecuflash read/flash can fail. Usually it is user error. Read the Ecuflash troubleshooting section of the romraider faq.

[Aex1]

Oh, Merchgod, thank you so much!

 

But I still have some questions, please, and the biggest one is: "What is my real ECU ID, then?" I've never heard of the double ECU:rolleyes:. I think, any ECU should have only one unique identification. And what about if I’d read/flash wrong ECU ID?

 

But ok, let’s find that real ECU, how can we do this? You’ve read, for sure, the 5-th point at my first message. I “corrected” only one number at the corresponding ECU ID, reffering to my ROM ID A2WC500C, let’s say, in place of the ECU ID 2F12505106 I put 2F12515106.

 

So I changed the RomRaider definitions for my special needs and replaced your original definitions by mine corrected. So what? Nothing! As before, RomRaider was open only a half! (But yes, below was written: “ROM ID: A2WC500C. ECU ID: 2F12515106”). Should I change something more? By the way, LV after that was still unreachable.

 

So, what do you mean saying:

“…you can update to a newer ROM revision that is already supported as long as you make sure it is the same market (USDM), year (05), model/trim (OBXT), and tranny.”? How can I do this, step by step, please?

 

And regarding the independance of the EcuFlash from the RomRaider. I was based on this:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic3808.html

 

and on this, in particular:

 

“The EcuFlash change list is the same as RomRaider's which can be found here: RomRaider ECU defs.”

 

So, dear Merchgod, what can you advise me for, let’s say, tomorrow:) I could enjoy the mickeyd map?

[merchgod]

The ECU uses flash memory as its ROM. This allows Subaru to update the ROM version on the assembly line and send a new ROM version to dealers to flash to customer's cars in order to fix issues that might come up. For example, when the 04 STi was released to the U.S., the first ROM version had detonation issues in some customer's cars. So, Subaru came out with an update that was flashed to customer's cars at the dealer and all cars on the assembly line after that point. It is not unusual for one specific MY car to have 4 or more revisions. Because stuff often gets shifted around when they update these, someone has to submit theirs (by pulling it with Ecuflash), in order for support to be added. Each ROM version has a unique ECU id, so what your ECU id is depends on what ROM was last flashed to the ECU.

 

You cannot just change the defs to support your ROM by using some other version's definition. The defs have to be customized for your ROM. That is not something you can do.

 

The distinction between Ecuflash and RR/LV I was making was that your ROM version doesn't have to be supported in Ecuflash in order to read the ROM (i.e. retrieve it and save it to your hard drive). Of course, you won't be able to do anything with it (i.e. tune), but you will be able to read it and save it so you can submit it at the romraider site so I can add support for it in RR, LV, and Ecuflash (you can also tune in Ecuflash). Although based on your latest ECU id, someone has already submitted it anyway.

 

The other option is that you can flash a newer ROM with Ecuflash that has already been submitted and is already supported. Go the supported ECUs page at romraider and find your market, model year, model, and tranny and search romraider and the openecu.org site to see if someone's uploaded the ROM there. DL it and then flash with Ecuflash. Of course, this is a more risky as you need to make sure that the ROM is correct for ECU. The LGT and OBXT ROMs are near identical, but each will still have a different ECU id, I would go ahead and flash the OBXT ROM even though the LGT ROM may work (based on your LV SS, it appears Cobb was using an LGT ROM for the OBXT). Of course, you'll need to figure out why you can't pull the ROM with Ecuflash. Like I said, this is almost always user error. Has nothing to do with the defs. Read the romraider faq. Also, remember, that Ecuflash is designed to be used with a tactrix openport cable not with the vag-com cable, even though that cable may work in some cases (read through the vag-com threads - there may be additional steps you need to take to get it to work).

[Aex1]

Thank you very much again, Merchgod. I see I understand much better now.

 

So, if someone doesn't like the idea to wait one month for your new definitions, is it possible to try to flash new ROM, taken from some well known source, like this one, for example:

 

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/ECUVersionCompatibilityList ?

 

Frankly, I'd preffer flashing the same ROM that AP has already shown me, but, as you say, for OBXT is better OBXT's ROMs and for Legacy GT - GT's ROMs, right? OK, let's deal with EcuFlash directly:lol:, by "Test to Write" first, naturally.

 

I suspect that possibly the cable has the fault...

 

And one more silly question, please: in all the instructions for EcuFlash is written that first you should wait for "OK" from EcuFlash, then turn key "ON' and only then, very quickly, hit "OK" button. But at the last version I didn't see any "OK" buttons, only "read", that's all. And precisely after hitting "read" (Subaru DBW 2005-2006 OBXT/GT models selected) - nothing. What it could be?..

 

P.S. Meanwhile studing VAG-cable threads, I saw at http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/ECUVersionCompatibilityList

that for my OBXT 2005 they propose 3 ROMs: A2WC521R, A2WC511R and A2WC510R. Which one to choose, if my car was produced in the 1-st half of the year? Maybe A2WC510R?

[merchgod]

You don't have to look at when your car was produced, only the model year (and, of course, market, model/trim, and tranny). The newest version that is supported by the defs for a 2005 USDM Outback XT with an automatic transmission would be this one:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/post6392.html

 

The 'ok' dialog box appears after you select read. If it doesn't then there's some issue, not sure what. Post up the entire Ecuflash error log.

[Aex1]

Sorry, Merchgod, but it seems like the Subaru versions 2005 and 2005.5 do have some differences. Look here, please:

 

http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33076

 

Or here:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic3184-120.html (your post "The 500 and 510 revisions didn't have the wgdc ramping behavior. It is something Subaru introduced mid-year."

 

It's a small thing, but... Anyway, the newest version I like it more, of course! But this Steve says: "Here it is, couldn't open it when we pulled it today. Thanks." Well, maybe we'll be more lucky:p? Let's wait for our "OK" button:lol:.

 

Thank you a lot.

 

P.S. About the log. Well, very simple (after opening with many flashing tools):

 

[21:12:10.992] Using interface FT232R USB UART A5002tl3

[21:12:10.992] interface close

[21:12:10.998] unable to connect to vehicle interface.

[21:12:10.999] interface close

 

Maybe, this interface should have other numbers?

[merchgod]

The ramping WGDC can be disabled in RomRaider so that is not an issue. Others have run the newer revision on the earlier model car without issue AFAIK. If you do have a problem then you can always flash the older revision. If you don't want to mess with changing revisions, then wait until your ROM revision is supported, although, if you had an AP ver 1, that ROM revision isn't necessarily the one that shipped with the car as the AP ver 1 does not save your original ROM.

 

I can't help you with Ecuflash as I haven't used a vag-com cable before (Ecuflash is designed to work with the tactrix cable). Some guys have had to use really old versions of Ecuflash to work with the vag-com and other tweaks that I'm not familiar with.

[rao]

Sorry, Merchgod, but it seems like the Subaru versions 2005 and 2005.5 do have some differences. Look here, please:

 

http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33076

 

Or here:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic3184-120.html (your post "The 500 and 510 revisions didn't have the wgdc ramping behavior. It is something Subaru introduced mid-year."

 

It's a small thing, but... Anyway, the newest version I like it more, of course! But this Steve says: "Here it is, couldn't open it when we pulled it today. Thanks." Well, maybe we'll be more lucky:p? Let's wait for our "OK" button:lol:.

 

Thank you a lot.

 

P.S. About the log. Well, very simple (after opening with many flashing tools):

 

[21:12:10.992] Using interface FT232R USB UART A5002tl3

[21:12:10.992] interface close

[21:12:10.998] unable to connect to vehicle interface.

[21:12:10.999] interface close

 

Maybe, this interface should have other numbers?

 

You are over-thinking this. Just pick a map that corresponds with the year and model of your car - if it is a 2005.5 then use a 2005.5 map.

 

As far as the cables go - I got the $5 ebay special and it works great

[Aex1]

Thanks to everybody. My AP is v2. OK, before buying Tactrix cable, let's do all the best with VAG-cable:).

 

I don't remember ROM ID divided by a half a year:lol:. Only Cobb's maps.

 

Thanks anyway. Maybe, I'll report some good news tomorrow.

[Aex1]

Hi, guys! Some news.

 

First, this is my new ROM, exactly after reflash:

 

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3625796.jpg

 

 

Today in the evening, very tranquilly I had to work this;) EcuFlash, but only v1.29! The last one (v1.42) - no. I'm running Window Vista, and my Subby is already old for such things:).

 

Well, still there are many issues in all this. For example, I downloaded my ROM, yes, but how to save it, if there isn't yet definitions for such ROM? Ok, I freely denominated my ECU as A2WC521R and saved it this way. (But after all this I tried to open it at RomRaider Editor and what? Yes, "ECU def. not found." Merchgod, did you read this?) Then I tested write to ECU this ROM, it was Ok. Only then I tryied "official" A2WC521R, taken from here:

 

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/ECUVersionCompatibilityList , sorry.

 

Well, test write was good and I decided:lol:! 3-4 minutes - and fresh made ROM is installed! I didn't have more time today for continue my tests, so I decided to reflash this fresh made ROM by my Accessport, Stage 2 (for preventing CELs).

 

First surprise: AP now recognizes my ECU, as 2005.5 Subaru GT/OBXT. Ok, let's flash. ECU flashed. But at Learning View there isn't still OBXT, there only they accept Legacy GT:p, thanks to Cobb!

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3625797.jpg

 

RR is connecting perfectly, but AccessTuner Race - NO! Ok, maybe I don't need Accessport anymore, but why it can't connect:mad:?

 

Well, others tests and experiments next days, please.

[merchgod]

Well, still there are many issues in all this. For example, I downloaded my ROM, yes, but how to save it, if there isn't yet definitions for such ROM?

You don't need defs to save. One of the options is to save it without defining in the dialog box that comes up when Ecuflash doesn't recognize the ROM.

 

Ok, I freely denominated my ECU as A2WC521R and saved it this way. (But after all this I tried to open it at RomRaider Editor and what? Yes, "ECU def. not found." Merchgod, did you read this?)

A2WC512R opens just fine in RomRaider which means that you screwed up somewhere. You don't have the latest ECU defs installed or you weren't actually opening up a A2WC512R ROM but something else.

 

RR is connecting perfectly, but AccessTuner Race - NO! Ok, maybe I don't need Accessport anymore, but why it can't connect:mad:?

AccessTuner Race won't likely work unless you have an AP married to the ECU.

[Aex1]

You don't need defs to save. One of the options is to save it without defining in the dialog box that comes up when Ecuflash doesn't recognize the ROM..

 

Ok, I attemped different ways, but more close it seemed to me the variant of "Inherited from ... such ECU ID". I chose A2WC521R.

 

A2WC512R opens just fine in RomRaider which means that you screwed up somewhere. You don't have the latest ECU defs installed or you weren't actually opening up a A2WC512R ROM but something else..

 

You mean, A2WC521R? (I already remembered it!) I guess so (something else...)

 

AccessTuner Race won't likely work unless you have an AP married to the ECU.

 

I was saying that AP was already installed to ECU, the new one! It seems that AccessTuner Race "smells" that something was changed in the ECU...

 

Just the point: I noticed that these two maps (A2WC510R and A2WC511R) both don't have "Wastgate Duty Ramping Fix", only A2WC521R has it. Maybe, my ECU is closer to those maps...

 

Thank you for attention.

[merchgod]

You don't want to inherit from anything - just save it only.

 

yes, I meant to type 521R.

[Aex1]

You don't want to inherit from anything - just save it only.

 

yes, I meant to type 521R.

 

I couldn't manage with the pop-up tutorial that have proposed me 3 variants of saving. With 1-st one, on the next step, it was said that there isn't such ECU and I can inform(?) openorg.com.

 

The 2-d one was copyied from the list of existed ECUs.

 

The 3-d one was inherited from the same list.

 

I couldn't save it a simple way, only through tutorial:cool:.

[Aex1]

Well, today morning. First, I unistalled again AP. Then, really concerned about the RR impossibility to open my stock(?) ROM, I tried it's "Test Write to ECU", without any problem. But then decided not to return to old times:lol: and flashed ROM A2WC511R, but with Mickeyd2005 Stage1 map corrections. Here is my LV after 200m driving:

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3626513.jpg

 

I will inform you, guys, about my future successes and frustrations.

 

Maybe, this topic should be called:

 

"Long way from Accessport to Open Source".

[Aex1]

Fresh impessions. Woo, this Mickeyd Stage1, v.6 is something!.. Only now you can imagine how much power have hidden from us those guys from Indiana:lol:! The car now is almost the same that I wanted it to be. That what I've been expecting for! Especially with the new "Requested Torque (Accelerator Pedal)". Thanks, Mickeyd, and discount for me in the future for such publicity:p!

 

Yes, Cobb's maps were also good, but a little more neutral, I'll say. Somewhat conservative, and I preffer more agressive style. (But comfortable during traffic jam, that's why AT.)

 

I'm even scared to test it at WOT, until it get familiar to the new conditions of life and new name:lol:. Besides, I don't have the silencer yet (but I do have tranny cooler). And, naturally, I finally got rid from SPT Intake after one year of happy:eek: ownership, replacing it for the stock one.

 

Well, some new LVs:

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3627749.jpg

 

http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3627750.jpg

 

Ok, I politely ask you, guys, to help me in the future to correct this home made;) ROM. Thanks to all.

 

EDIT: When I open my stock ROM in EcuEdit, it recognized it as A2WC500R.