GTTuner Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 "nah nah nah nah... nah nah nah nah, hey hey goodbye!" Finally.. it may look painful but this is the only way GM is going to redeem itself. Way too many "niche" brands that just overlap with each other and compete with one another rather than fighting off foreign models. Just a testomonial to how things have changed. Anyone remember the 70"s and 80's??? The Cutlass Supreme (Americas sweetheart), Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix. Talk about overlap. I quess they should have thought outside that 70's-80's box, not to mention tightening up operating costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Time to kill the rest of the stupid brands. Chevrolet and Cadillac - all that should stay. GMC is commercial so they will stay, buick is #1 in china so they will stay. IMO, it should have been pontiac, chevy and caddi. Pontiac being the performance name other than the camaro and vette and caddi being luxury, and chevy doing everything in between. But GM doesnt have any room to make a straight performance brand ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Pen Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 did the GXP ever even make it stateside? ive seen a few g8 gt's but no GXP... pretty sad indeed... i always loved firebirds... and i seriously considered buying a WS6 before buying the leggy.. now i wish i did.. but at the time having a year round dd was more important my biggest complaint will be the loss of the t-tops.. im a sucker for a t-top, or a targa for that matter.. but i dont think pontiac has made a car with a t-top since they dropped the trans-am anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 did the GXP ever even make it stateside? ive seen a few g8 gt's but no GXP... pretty sad indeed... i always loved firebirds... and i seriously considered buying a WS6 before buying the leggy.. now i wish i did.. but at the time having a year round dd was more important my biggest complaint will be the loss of the t-tops.. im a sucker for a t-top, or a targa for that matter.. but i dont think pontiac has made a car with a t-top since they dropped the trans-am anyway Yes the gxp is out. There is one for sale at a dealer down the street from my work. Nice car i like the rims better than the GT for sure. And no pontiacs last t-top car is the firebird. I hate myself for selling my 2000 T/A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I was kind if bummed by this news and then I tried to think of something made by Pontiac that was truly something worthwhile in the last ten years. I like the DI Solstice, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 I was kind if bummed by this news and then I tried to think of something made by Pontiac that was truly something worthwhile in the last ten years. I like the DI Solstice, but that's it. Turbo Solstice and G8 GXP.... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Most significant Pontiac's ever: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090427/CARNEWS/904279983 Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I've owned three Trans Ams, and those are the only GM products I have, or ever will purchase. Now that they are dropping Pontiac, I hate the company, and will never consider it again when shopping for a new car. I will be purchasing one of those '89 Turbo Trans Ams someday. The sad thing about that car is that it was the fasted vehicle produced by GM in the 80's, and it was powered by a 3.8 turbocharged and intercooled Buick Grand National motor that they had available since '86. ALL Trans Am/Formula cars could have been equipped with that motor, and the line would have far outsold the Mustang--but GM has always given Pontiac the shaft. Remember that goofy Syclone/Typhoon thing they made in the early 90's? It had a 4.3 turbo--which could also have gone in the Trans Am, but never did. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/04/28/from_muscle_car_to_memory/ Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I've owned three Trans Ams, and those are the only GM products I have, or ever will purchase. Now that they are dropping Pontiac, I hate the company, and will never consider it again when shopping for a new car. I will be purchasing one of those '89 Turbo Trans Ams someday. The sad thing about that car is that it was the fasted vehicle produced by GM in the 80's, and it was powered by a 3.8 turbocharged and intercooled Buick Grand National motor that they had available since '86. ALL Trans Am/Formula cars could have been equipped with that motor, and the line would have far outsold the Mustang--but GM has always given Pontiac the shaft. Remember that goofy Syclone/Typhoon thing they made in the early 90's? It had a 4.3 turbo--which could also have gone in the Trans Am, but never did. -- Gm used the 4.3 liter for a long time they just unturboed it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-WDC Spec B Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 agreed two of my chevys came with a 4.3L V6 its basically a 350 with the last two cylinders cut off. Same torq potential too, but hp is off. and the 3.8 is a 305 with the last two cylinders cut off. Thats why the trans-am came with a 3.8 or the 305. then the firebird had the 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I just read something about the new Vibe doing really well and that it should be rebadged as a Chevy, but GM will not be doing that. So they have a sales success and they will just let it go away. And they wonder why they are in the trouble that they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Saturn is following the same path... Just sad day to see such an American icon go... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-WDC Spec B Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I just read something about the new Vibe doing really well and that it should be rebadged as a Chevy, but GM will not be doing that. So they have a sales success and they will just let it go away. And they wonder why they are in the trouble that they are in. I read the the New Vibe is a Matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 I read the the New Vibe is a Matrix. That's the problem about Pontiac.... Too many re branded cars available probably cheaper from elsewhere (Chevrolet, Toyota, etc) :redface: If they really only concentrated on budget performance, what they used to be.... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 agreed two of my chevys came with a 4.3L V6 its basically a 350 with the last two cylinders cut off. Same torq potential too, but hp is off. and the 3.8 is a 305 with the last two cylinders cut off. Thats why the trans-am came with a 3.8 or the 305. then the firebird had the 350. You could get 350 in anything it was all about what options the car came with. The trans am has always been the top of the top, firebird, formula, trans am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 agreed two of my chevys came with a 4.3L V6 its basically a 350 with the last two cylinders cut off. Same torq potential too, but hp is off. and the 3.8 is a 305 with the last two cylinders cut off. Thats why the trans-am came with a 3.8 or the 305. then the firebird had the 350. Interesting. But where did that POS 3.4 V6 come from that the '93-96 base Firebirds come equiped with? They didn't get the 3.8 until '96 or '97. And why, exactly wouldn't GM sell another turbocharged Trans Am? They did at the end of the 2nd generation's run, and close to the end of the 3rd gen run with the '89 Anniversary Trans Am. The '94 25th Anniversary Trans Am should have had the 4.3 turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Couldn't GM still offer Models/brands that they have overseas like Holden? Which is what they have been doing anyways under the pontiac name..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Couldn't GM still offer Models/brands that they have overseas like Holden? Which is what they have been doing anyways under the pontiac name..... They perfectly could... But the business case just isn't there... "We" (or the majority of Americans I should say) have been accustomed to purchasing gas guzzler SUV's in the last years or so, and the quality and performance was all shifted to Europeans (well not so much for quality lately), leaving the big three in a tough situation, the main reason why they decided to produce inexpensive, less advanced cars to suffice the hungry suburban drivers... Let's face it, the half dozen of us don't even tickle the way those car companies think and behave, they have to go after the mass market segments, otherwise they will not survive... Even Toyota got out of the performance, enthusiast market after they stopped selling Supra's in the US. Look what Subaru's doing with the 2010 Legacy! They are transforming it into a Ford Taurus (fleet oriented sales), nonetheless this is the way they see to make money and still concentrate and please the enthusiast market with STi's and WRX's.... Pontiac even tried... With the 04/05 GTO, but people still preferred to buy 3-series BMW's or Audi's with the same amount of money and the car was a disaster, well, part also because it's was just a rebadge of an old and outdated Holden model. It's just a shame, but maybe this is a good sign, maybe whey will still continue bringing Holdens or Vaxhauls here to the US, now just under the Chevy brand... Less dealerships, less overhead costs, etc etc... Don't wanna go too much into the business aspect of the matter... I think, at the end of the day, this is a good move, sad for some (myself included), but better for our future... And let's really hope people change their minds when it comes to cars here. Let's face it, we are the country that polutes the most in the world, in the automotive industry, this is largely because of our gas guzzler inneficient engines... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTlegacy06 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Looking at pontiac's site aren't all of their cars just rebadges? Nothing really unique. http://www.pontiac.com/view-vehicles/ G3 = Chevy Aveo G5 = Chevy Cobalt G6 = Chevy Malibu G8 = Holden Commodore (import) Solstice = Saturn Sky/Opel GT Torrent = Chevy Equinox Vibe = Toyota Matrix ALL of their cars are simply "performance" trims of others. The only slightly unique vehicle is the G8 but that could of ended up as a Chevy just as easily. Pontiac has been long dead imo simply on life support. This change up and shedding of badges should of occurred alongside the death of Oldsmobile.... The only Pontiac ive driven recently was a rental Vibe... horrible car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTlegacy06 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Looking at Saturn: Vue: Chevy Equinox Sky: Opel GT Aura: Malibu Clone Astra: Opel Import Outlook: Chevy Traverse/Buick Enclave With Pontiac out of the picture Saturn looks alittle more viable relatively speaking since there would be one less rebadge competitor however its line up is still small (only 5 vehicles) 3 are Chevy clones, 2 are Opel imports. No room for anything unique, saturn doesn't have the legacy of Pontiac. With the rise of fuel costs (and fear that it will be back up higher) there is no room for a "performance" brand like Pontiac instead the cheap/econo Saturn wins since it is needed in the fight against imports (as well as to bring over Euro-Opel models). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Saturn Ion as well Bleh, I missed back when they designed their own little 1.9L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 What does it say when me, someone who spends quite a bit of time reading about cars, doesn't even know the G3 existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Looking at Saturn: Vue: Chevy Equinox Sky: Opel GT Aura: Malibu Clone Astra: Opel Import Outlook: Chevy Traverse/Buick Enclave With Pontiac out of the picture Saturn looks alittle more viable relatively speaking since there would be one less rebadge competitor however its line up is still small (only 5 vehicles) 3 are Chevy clones, 2 are Opel imports. No room for anything unique, saturn doesn't have the legacy of Pontiac. With the rise of fuel costs (and fear that it will be back up higher) there is no room for a "performance" brand like Pontiac instead the cheap/econo Saturn wins since it is needed in the fight against imports (as well as to bring over Euro-Opel models). What's funny is that all those Saturn rebadged cars sell A LOT in Europe... Astra was one the best selling vehicles there, ahead of the Golf, BMW 1 series, etc... I know it's not the same completely car as it's sold here, but if you go out there and drive a Saturn Astra, you will see that it's probably tighter and more agile than a regular Legacy or an Impreza... I know FWD< etc etc etc but for the most people FWD cars sell a lot, we are not talking about the enthusiast people here... Aura is the rebadged Opel/Vaxhaul Vectra and also a strong seller in Europe... The problem boils down to the kind of cars Americans are used to purchase, and the majority of cars are really sold in rural communities where people rather have a F-150 or Silverado instead of a hatchback... Pure simple! P.S. I would take anyday an Astra over a Golf, Civic, Corola, etc etc etc... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 What does it say when me, someone who spends quite a bit of time reading about cars, doesn't even know the G3 existed. Dude, you and me both I try and keep up with everything and I didn't know there was a G3 or that it was even in the works. WTF GM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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