EJ20H-TT Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Of course a worldwide prob - if u think gas is expensive - feel for our Japanese memebers ! But anyone thinking maybe with the cost of fuel a 250hp turbocharger car is too expensive ? USA seems resigned to gas costs By Tom Kenworthy, USA TODAY Gas prices are soaring and millions of motorists are changing their driving habits. So here's sacrifice, American-style: Paul and Susan Neiman have just pulled into the Flying J Travel Center at the intersection of I-25 and I-80. They're heading for six days of camping from their home in Fort Collins, Colo., where they've been walking more and carpooling to save gas money. But today they're driving a full-size pickup. They're towing a huge travel trailer. And behind the first trailer is another carrying four all-terrain vehicles. The whole rig stretches at least 50 feet. Their concession to record-high gas prices? They've left their jet skis at home because, says Paul, "they consume a lot of fuel." :D :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Not me. I ride my bicycle to work, or take the train on inclement days (rain, snow). I use a car for pleasure, driving these days about 4,000 miles per year. I can't wait for my Legacy GT wagon. I can't believe all of the high gas prices stories. When I was in France last year, paying almost $5 per gallon for regular unleaded, I was happy to pay $2 per gallon for premium unleaded. No problem. Americans are too attached to their cars to ever reconsider them in general, because of high gas prices. In the context of this board, enthusiasts seem to be even less concerned about those sorts of factors. So the short answer is, "Nope." Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan2 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I think Europe is even higher for fuel costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 [quote name='apexjapan2']I think Europe is even higher for fuel costs.[/quote] 'Tis indeed. This year's rental request through Sixt read "Je desire gazole, S.V.P." Diesel is the way to go, as the truckers keep the price down to usually about .8E per liter, vs. 1.2-1.4E per liter for regular, dependent upon where you go. Oh, and renting a Renault rental means that nobody else's fuel nozzle will fit, so you have to "choisi Elf." :lol: Had a Ford Mondeo wagon last year, which was a very nice car, particularly in wagon form. The German plates were a funny touch, however. It seems to me that you'll know when Americans are getting worried about high fuel costs when sales of the hybrid SUVs or various Priapic Toyotas (I know it's Prius, but the joke is too tough to pass up...they could do a link-up with Viagra or Cialis) soar, as big SUV sales decline. But I don't see anyone trading Hummers for a Prius or hybrid Highlander or Escape. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Some of the good Euro diesels could be nice, and much nicer than the hybrids. I read an AutoWeek article about a Merc E-class that had a diesel with ~210 hp and 300+ ft/lb, and I know BMW has a 330d as well that's decent. At the rate diesel improvement seems to be going, there could soon be little reason not to get a diesel, because they won't be lacking in performance much either. That said... I'm with Kevin. I'd like to bike to work 2-3 days a week. Less fuel burned in the car, and more fuel burned off my @ss. Sounds like a good trade-off. :) Plus, costs will eventually come down, or so history would seem to indicate. And nothing's going to convince me not to get the 250 hp. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ20H-TT Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 [quote name='gtguy'] It seems to me that you'll know when Americans are getting worried about high fuel costs when sales of the hybrid SUVs or various Priapic Toyotas (I know it's Prius, but the joke is too tough to pass up...they could do a link-up with Viagra or Cialis) soar, as big SUV sales decline. Kevin[/quote] Funny u should say that By the summer of 2002 customers were waiting months to take delivery and were bidding more than the sticker price for the privilege of driving one. Between July 2002 and November 2002, monthly sales of the Hummer H1 and the Hummer H2 practically doubled, from 1,922 to 3,933, according to figures provided by Autodata. But in recent months the Hummer has bogged down. Combined year-over-year sales of the H1 and H2 have fallen for the past five months. In January 2004, just 1,927 Hummers were sold—off nearly 50 percent from December 2003, and down by one third from January 2003. The future doesn't look very bright, either. Business Week reported there are 68 days worth of Hummers in inventory, and that GM has throttled back its 2004 sales forecast from 40,000 to 30,000. The sales drop reflects simple common sense. The Hummer is a mediocre car, with the quality ratings to show for it. The drop may also reflect a change in the zeitgeist. When you compare the fortunes of the Hummer to those of its opposite—Toyota's hybrid Prius, which can get upwards of 50 miles per gallon—it looks like the market may be shifting. First sold in the United States in 2000, the diminutive Prius remained a curiosity as the Hummer rose to celebrity. But sales rose to about 20,000 in 2002 and to 24,000 in 2003. Since the new 2004 model was introduced in the fall, the Prius has been stomping the Hummer. In November 2003, the Prius outsold the H2 by a 2-to-1 margin, according to Autodata. In January 2004, Prius sales were up 82 percent from January 2003. For the 2004 model year, Toyota initially boosted production 50 percent to 36,000. But demand has been strong enough that production has already been increased to 47,000. And that's still not enough. My Toyota dealer doesn't have a Prius on the lot and says that interested purchasers must put down a deposit today and wait six months. By contrast, my local Hummer dealer has several on the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 It is commonly talked about how much more gasoline costs in Europe, but that's only part of the equation. Kevin is one of few people in the US that is able to drive only 4,000 miles a year in his car. That is how my driving in Central America was and how I understand more driving to be like in Japan as well as other countries. When you look at the fact that so many Americans drive a good 15,000 miles per year, it means that the total gas expense is the same as a Brit driving 7500 miles/year at double the US price/gallon. Fuel efficiency is still desired. I feel bad for anybody trying to sell big SUVs or worse, trade them in. People are definitely getting rid of 18 mpg SUVs to at least downgrade in size and at least get 23mpg highway. They're even (yay!) getting out of SUVs all together to get the 28+ mpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I wish I was closer to work, the family just moved farther out of town which means it would be both exceedingly dangerous to get to work/school by the roads I'd need to take, and forever. It's at least a good 20 minutes or more worth of driving to work and most of that is between the speeds of 50 and 70. So biking is little of an option, additional to basically the only semi-direct route being highway only. I will say that since I am working at the same plant/mill as my dad works at for the summer, we car pool whenever possible to put less miles on the cars and save on energy and pollution. So I have to go in half an hour early and he stays half an hour later. It's worth it. I went out and watched 'The Day After Tomorrow' tonight. Now, while I realize it is far from real in many respects, there are some good points to be made how things could change down the road. I know over the last several months my family has been talking about efficiency and such as much as possible. We have nearly all Energy-Star appliances, low-power light bulbs, a very well insulated house, etc. Now if we can only get the big polluters, the power producers such as autos, construction/farm equipment, marine freight haulers, aircraft, and power plants to be more efficient and cleaner, it's a step in the right direction. It's a shame the economy has taken a downstep and funds are reduced for programs such as greater use of recycling and such. We need to use more bio degradeable components in many things and recycle as much as possible to not wreck this great place for our future generations, not just here, but from every corner of the planet. I would love to take a good look at some of the patents big corporations tied to oil companies have seeing they don't want to see the dependance on their product reduced. Some of the greatest things I see: -It is excellent to see the emissions from diesels will be severely reduced in the next 3 and 6 years respectively with sulfer emissions. I sure wouldn't mind a 12-16k small 4-passenger only urban diesel hybrid with partial zero emissions and 100+mpg in the near future (5-10 years.) A [url=http://travel.howstuffworks.com/stirling-engine.htm/printable]Sterling Engine[/url] hybrid would be very tempting as well for commuting. :cool: -Since Wisconsin is big into farming, there was an excellent [url=http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_15531668.shtml]ARTICLE[/url] in the Post Crescent about how a company has devised a system to take farm waste, break it down, use the methane for power generation (instead of it being released into the air as methane contributes to global warming much greater than that of burning petroleum like gasoline), and other parts for feed and bedding with near zero waste. The methane burns rather cleanly and on a roughly 3,000-cow commercial operation, it only uses about 1/4 of the power it generates, thus selling the rest of the power. It's great! Hopefully the cost is sufficient that it allows the system to be more widely available in the near future to co-ops of farmers (min of 400-500 cows) to provide a steady return and clean energy with safe handling of animal waste. -On a slightly more bewildering but potential note is about a report I did on nuclear spent fuel last fall. I read that of all the nuclear spent fuel in the U.S. alone, at the current rates, it will take millions of years to break down to safe levels. Current containment systems are only good for an estimated 1000 years. Of that nuclear fuel, about only 20% is waste if the spent fuel was reprocessed leaving a highly usable 80% of the current used stockpiles. The 20% would be able to decay to relatively safe levels in only 200-300 years with half-life in the 30 year range while the other 80% can be re-used. [url=http://www.detnews.com/2001/editorial/0111/12/a09-341229.htm]HERE[/url] is the article, I highly suggest you read it! The reason they don't do it is because the cost is high, but if I had the option for clean fuel and add an estimated 10-20% extra to my power bill just for the sake of reprocessing that fuel for near 100% clean energy, I'd do it. Less toxic, radioactive tailings from mining new fuel for quite some time, and a lessened need for fossil fuel power if more and even safer nuclear plants are built. I think the Chernobyl and 3-mile mistakes can and have been learned from in most instances. We need to put faith back in this form of energy production. Power production in many forms as stated above is a very lucrative area of engineering and the one that entices me the most. I think it is EXTREMELY important to the future of current generations and beyond, and that is why I am so interested in it and want to do my part to make the world a better place for everyone. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurpman Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I expect the leg GT to be my last regular gasoline powered vehicle. My next purchase will probably be a hybrid. My deal is that I don't want to give up much performance for the reduced fuel and emissions. While the technology is developing, I'll let others fork out their money for subpar vehicles. Yes it's selfish, but I'm being honest here. The 2004 Prius is the first respectable hybrid IMO, and the 2005 Lexus RX 400 hybrid will actually put out more power than the RX 330 upon which it is based! 270 hp with 28 mpg and an super ultra low emissions rating! Not sure what the price will be nor how much weight the battery, electric motor, and other components will add though. At the current rate of development, I figure that in 5-8 years when I buy my next vehicle, there will be several good hybrids out there that sacrifice little in the way of performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 was the worst $6.50 I spent on a political statement ever. I thought it was going to be bad, with suggestions and subliminals, but they were just hard core about it. presidential statements on how we can do our part to save the planet, etc. I was impressed by the visual effects, and the story line was bearable. I was very unimpressed by the way they just made it a political tree hugging statement. burn less fossil fuels, fart less, and come gather around the fire and we will sing kumbaya! I want my $6.50 back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Where were you spending $6.50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Fuel over the past few years has pretty much been on a upward climb, especially around Xmas and NYE...... but I think that is the one expense really that no one can control, meaning if a GT is what u want well u might have to go without other things to pay for it. As pointed out by Apexjapan, the new GT's fuel consumption isnt that much over the outgoing model, so that has to be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Even here a few of the new cars people are already seeing 26-28mpg on break-in. Can't be displeased with that, at least I'm not, thats at the top end of the scale at which I get right now anyhow. I'm sure going up to the vacation areas where the speed limit is 55mph all the way up, I could get really close to 30mpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Where were you spending $6.50?[/quote] Must have been a movie. Which one Drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 [quote name='EJ20H-TT']But today they're driving a full-size pickup. They're towing a huge travel trailer. And behind the first trailer is another carrying four all-terrain vehicles. The whole rig stretches at least 50 feet. Their concession to record-high gas prices? They've left their jet skis at home because, says Paul, "they consume a lot of fuel."[/quote] It will be a huge battle here in the US to convert people from this way of consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Where were you spending $6.50?[/quote] Why the movies of course. My post was in reference to your "The Day After Tomorrow" post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Ah, it was nothing much more than entertainment to me. I try to be somewhat environmentally oriented anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I'm starting to have second thoughts. My dealer is starting to play stupid with me on some stuff, I'm having a difficult time selling my WRX and I'm finding myself less thrilled abou the prospect of owning any new car. My WRX is paid for, maybe I'll just hang onto it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 If the benefits don't outweigh the costs, don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 How long have you had your WRX on the market Jedi? It's modded right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 It's been for sale for a few weeks now- at least officially. It is modded- Stage 2. I just got back from the dealer and suffice it to say that I've had enough of them- I told them to cut me a check for my deposit and I'm outta there- then they tell me all this about how the "door isn't closed", so I told them it is! I can't stand a dealer who won't handle things the way I ask them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='jedimaster']It's been for sale for a few weeks now- at least officially. It is modded- Stage 2. I just got back from the dealer and suffice it to say that I've had enough of them- I told them to cut me a check for my deposit and I'm outta there- then they tell me all this about how the "door isn't closed", so I told them it is! I can't stand a dealer who won't handle things the way I ask them to.[/quote] Yeah, selling a modded car can be difficult because people assume it has been thrashed and will be unreliable. Researching the purchase of a new car can be loads of fun, but then when you actually get to the dealer and start the transaction, a lot of dealers kill the fun. I have never had fun at a dealership purchasing a new car, sad to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Man, I have three people in line to buy my wagon. The leader is also the most serious one, to boot. My car is modded, but just for handling and braking, it must also be said. My dealer is awesome, too. Hey jedimaster, are you a "The Shield" fan? I just finished watching the final four episodes (ah, the joys of being a journalist with access to advance screeners), and they're pretty amazing. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I'm a huge Shield fan- you're making me very jealous! 3 people to buy your wagon, a good dealer on your new car and advance screenings of The Shield- think I'll go out to the car and put that Glock on my mouth ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 and suck on it? :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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