Sway bars

[Sphinx002]

Hello all, my new GT has 150 miles on it, need to start thinking mods. I really don't want to do mess with stock set up, so I'm thinking about front and rear sway bars (need to wait till after break in period for AP stage 1). My question is two fold.

 

1. 23mm front and 22 back seem to be what people are running correct?

 

2. Where do I get the Cusco for best price?

 

Debadged and tinted the windows...looks great

[Limeydriver]

I would go JDM 20mm rear (available from Paul at avoturboworld). That will give you a nice neutral setup. 22 or 23 is getting a little stiff for my liking unless you are doing other stuff like pinks or coilovers. If you want Cusco fastwrx.com are a good source. Perrin also has a set 17-22mm adjustable rear and 22mm front as does Whiteline who do a 22 front 20 rear.

[Sphinx002]

From what I've read on here, the smaller rears aren't much better than stock, nothing I've read on here has said they are making the car too stiff. Actually, even saying too stiff confuses me since my next question would be...too stiff of what? It's not springs and shocks we are taking about.

[Limeydriver]

The stock rear is 16mm you will be going to 20mm. Not an insignificant difference. What I meant by "stiff" was swaybar rigidity that reduces bodyroll and gives the stiffer feel to the suspension. The thicker swaybar will change the handling characteristics of the vehicle and induce more lift off oversteer which, without other mods can cause some rear end unpredictability (usually when you least expect or want it). As I said if I were doing pinks etc then an even bigger swaybar would probably be OK. I just like to keep my handling as neutral as possible.

 

Keefe sums it up really well:-

 

tires contribute more of that action than the sway bar itself since I can get a stock GT to do that already with just better tires. The RE92s do not have the grip capacity to control the car 60/40 weight split like that. You would probably have to drive slower to feel the lift-throttle steer. You can get some stickier tires to really get the front end to bite the asphalt and allow the rear to swing out under lift-throttle steering. Again, the world's biggest sway bar isn't going to help if you can't get your front end to pivot (which is really relying on the outside front tire as your pivot point) because that's where the weight transfer comes into play. Basically you have to balance the grip between all 4 tires. A larger sway bar helps distributes the load from outside tire to the inside tire. If the load is too great for the shocks and springs, the inside will just lift off the ground since the sway bar is so stiff and it wont bend, and this is where you need to understand that you need a pivot point (the front tire) and puposely lose traction in the outside rear tire.

 

I hope that helps you understand a little bit of what really goes on with the car during lift-throttle steering. Sway bars are a double-edge sword. The good side to them is that they transfer the loads from the outside tire to the inside tire, keeping the entire axle as straight as possible (hence no rolling) at the same time, if it's too big or too stiff, it takes out the independence of the suspension where sometimes it's nice to have all 4 tires touching the ground rather than than 3, 2, or even 1 tire on the ground. Sway bars only work if the opposing end of the tire is counteracting by sticking down on the ground. You can exceed the suspensions' limits if you over drive the car regardless of what parts you have on the car.

 

It's very critical of what sizes you need in a sway bar to make the car do what you want. A friend of mine who drives an STi disconnected the front sway bar and runs a 22mm rear instead. He can really make that front end of the that car pivot. Some autocrossers love to just have a larger front sway to keep the car from corner diving when trail-braking. Dont worry if you don't have a "matching" set from one company. Buy what you need to make the car perform to your liking as everyone has different driving skills and styles.

[Sphinx002]

Yes I understand that completely, what I was saying is that the people that actually have these sway bars, and have reported on here, are NOT reporting these problems at all. Actually they are reporting more neutral steering. I'm not thinking of this for any other reason than to help in corner dipping. I'd like a flatter turn and new tires (which are on the list of things to do as well) aren't going to help with that. The tires certainly will help grip, but that is an entirely different conversation. Speaking of which....why sent me that post which has nothing to do with anything but explaining grip issues when using stiffer sway bars??

 

Understand that theory is only applicable until someone actually does real world testing. People are already using this set up and getting results that I'm talking about. Flat cornering and neutral feel. Please do a search on sway bars on here and read for yourself. Saying "too stiff causes under steer" is generic and can actually be incorrect. I am not using the car as an autocross vehicle, but I do rather aggressive driving and live in a state that doesn't seem to have a straight road in it. The corner diving is a real issue on this car when driving hard since it is really hard to get that weight back in line when doing multiple corners.

 

Can someone please answer my original questions? Someone that is actually using the set up mentioned or has tried it?

 

Not trying to be a prick here, just would really like constructive feedback. Thanks

 

AJ

[Xenonk]

Hello all, my new GT has 150 miles on it, need to start thinking mods. I really don't want to do mess with stock set up, so I'm thinking about front and rear sway bars (need to wait till after break in period for AP stage 1). My question is two fold.

 

1. 23mm front and 22 back seem to be what people are running correct?

 

2. Where do I get the Cusco for best price?

 

Debadged and tinted the windows...looks great

 

Sway bars depends on the kind of driver you are, not what everybody else is typically running... there are various sizes and such.. depending on how you want your car to handle, add accordingly.

 

http://www.racecompengineering.com sells the Cusco now.. email/call for pricing and availabilty.

 

 

Keefe

[Xenonk]

I wanted to say that just taking out the front stock sway bar can really put some stress on the outside tire.. you have to understand that there are different ways to achieve the kind of "track out" and "turn-in" you wish to have. As I said before, it really depends on how you drive. Sure, you can stick on any larger sway bar you want. There is a limit to the sway bar as it can be a double edge sword. There is something as too stiff when you really make a hard turn-in and you overload the springs and shocks ability to resist compression. When that happens, you can certainly overload the sway bars' ability to keep the inside tire on the ground because the sway bars job is to keep the supension as flat as possible. The reason that some people claim "too big can cause understeer" holds true when the front end of the car exceeds the grip during a turn-in situation. The sway bar is taking out the independence of the front end of trying to keep the inside tire off the ground because the outside tire is being compressed way too much.

 

Again, there are instances on my car where I feel that I want to go back to a front sway bar and leaving my 22mm adjustable bar to the stiffest to get the rear end swing out more (since I autox this car). The GT has an open end differential, so you do what you can get keep the loads even on both front wheels to get the most out of the track-out acceleration.

 

Keefe

[Sphinx002]

Keefe,

 

Thanks for the post, Giving a new GT, not racing, but driving hard on the twisty roads of mid Massachusetts, here is what I'm looking to do.

 

Keep my transitions as flat as possible while not killing the softer ride. The roads here aren't the greatest and I couldn't handle anything stiffer. The 50/50 balance of my 325i did this well. Suggestions on a set up? The P-zeros M + S are on the list for better grip. I don't want to do summer winter tires. Too much a hassle.

[Xenonk]

actually, if that's what you are going for, you might just want to get a rear sway only.. preferrably the JDM 20mm as the larger sway bar in the rear will get a little nasty on you when you load up on it and there's quite a bit of snap-back when the car catches grip. Since you will be seeing more snow and you say that the roads are not exaclty idea and your intentions with the car, you are probably good with a rear sway bar and probably a set of performance springs with minimal drop but with a higher spring rate to keep the front end a little bit more "resistant" to the weight roll. But a smaller sway bar and tires will do it for ya.. I dont see the point of you using a larger sway bar on the street and in the snow when that will kill the ride of the car and it's daily soft drive to work.

 

Keefe

[Sphinx002]

Keefe, Thank you so much for your time an thoughtful response. Any ideas on a make/model for the springs? Sounds like what I'm looking for....

 

AJ

[scans007]

Sphinx....hit me up for a ride if you're ever in the area (Waltham -day) Leominster (night) you can come feel my front/rear sways and endlinks for yourself and be able to make a better decsion....I have no probs give'n a fellow GT'r a ride......

 

I installed mine last weekend......so much better for our MA windy roads...=)

 

EDIT: I have Perrin adjustable Front and rear 22/23

[Sphinx002]

I'm in Acton (night)/ Sudbury (day) so either place is fine with me. I'd love to be able to feel first hand. Any other mods?

[Xenonk]

I would have to see if Swift makes a good set of non-dropping stiffer springs.. if you want to go with an agressive rear sway bar, make sure it's solid and not hollow as some sway bars do that to save weight.. I personally dont like them due to sheering and tensile strength on the metal that it will experience.

 

Keefe

[Sphinx002]

Gotcha. I'm still in break-in mode so it will be a little bit before I pull trigger. Doing AP stage 1, then tires, then suspension

[Xenonk]

you'll notice a lot more just out of the tires.

 

Keefe

[gtguy]

Gotcha. I'm still in break-in mode so it will be a little bit before I pull trigger. Doing AP stage 1, then tires, then suspension

 

Tires, then suspension, then power, IMHO.

 

Kevin

[rc0032]

Driver, then Tires, then suspension, then power, IMHO.

 

Kevin

 

nothing but <3

[scans007]

I'm in Acton (night)/ Sudbury (day) so either place is fine with me. I'd love to be able to feel first hand. Any other mods?

 

We can def catch up sometime.....PM me and we'll figure it out...as for other mods you can check out what I've done here: http://www.bostonwolfpack.com/Scans007/modlist.htm

[Sphinx002]

Awesome ride, looks like you are doing the same mods I'd like to do.

[LEGGTLTD]

I just got my Cusco rear sway bar yesterday. I'm installing it tonight

[Sphinx002]

Please post your thoughts after you test...are you doing anything in the front?

[LEGGTLTD]

No not yet anyway. I already upgraded the tires to 225s and now the bigger rear sway. So I'l see how I like it.

[scans007]

I just got my Cusco rear sway bar yesterday. I'm installing it tonight

 

How'd the install go I need to re-grease my bars....with the storm I think the salt and water took away some of the grease....they are squeak'n something fierce

[Sphinx002]

I keep hearing about the squeaking. That would drive me nuts. Anyone got ideas on how to stop it. I'm not going to regrease after every storm.

[scans007]

Yeah I know...it's my bad...I didn't lube up well enough upon install......here are some pics so you can see the rear bar and endlinks. If done right you shouldn't have to relube often at all, in my research it seemed that if done right and it's a heavy duty grease that it should got 6 - 8 months easy...we'll see when I go buy some...