wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 So i got a tune by Tim Bailey last July. The 93 tune went fine but then on to the meth. He told me that my meth wasnt working. So i pulled the TMIC and proved it was fine. After 4 or so more pulls he said it was working ok. I have the HFS-5 with a .8mm jet with 50/50 mix of M5. Well the meth has never felt as good as the 93 even after i left the tune. Well 2 months ago i finally started logging. The logs look off. When i go on/off then back on the throttle it wont build boost. Also the 3rd gear pull doesnt hit target boost. On the attaced logs it will build boost if i start real low in the rpm. I sent tim a couple emails to no avail. So i called and talked to travis. He told me it was a mechanical issue but him and tim would look at my logs. They never called me back and havnt returned my call. I dont expect a whole lot because of the time frame but a small amount of their time would be appreciated. Can anyone think of a mechanical issue that would affect the meth tune but not the 93? Also if it was a meth issue wouldnt the lack of meth start retarding timing and other things? Im not trying to discredit Tim but rather figure out my issue since they wont give their 2 cents. My 93 map feels awsome, im lost...3rd gear meth normal boost.csv3rd gear meth low boost.csv3rd gear 93.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Please post up all your modifications. I took a quick glance and it it looks like you have a boost leak...something is causing you to not even come near your target boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 P&P&C mannis, X-over pipe, UP, Long catless DP, ABE, Perrin TMIC, AVO CAI, Aquamist HFS-5. I noticed the boost issue as well but my 93 oct map runs 18 psi all day long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 That is odd, I am sure that the experienced tuners will chime in.. Is this a protune? If so make sure you have both your Base and RT maps loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 The base map is the same. I have Realtime maps for 93, meth, and economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airboy Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 You sure you are not running the economy map? Looks like you are running at 0% wastegate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_GT_Pilot Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 If you're hitting your boost target with your 93 map, and not with your meth map then the turbo related tables (wastegate, dynamics, etc.) must be different between the tunes. Is this the first time you used your meth map? Did it work well before? You're running pretty rich with meth as well. I know the stock sensor is not that accurate, but you're pegged at 11.02 the entire way. With my wideband and meth, I'm targeting and hitting 12.2 - 12.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 +1 I am pretty sure he is not running a WB02...that looks like the stock front o2 reading..which is pretty useless under boost. The wierd thing is the target boost is pulled off the map..so he must have the right map loaded right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airboy Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 +1 I am pretty sure he is not running a WB02...that looks like the stock front o2 reading..which is pretty useless under boost. The wierd thing is the target boost is pulled off the map..so he must have the right map loaded right? You don't really *need* to set a low boost target for economy mode since setting WGDC to 0% will do what you want (limit boost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 It has always ran like this. I ran a coulpe tanks of meth through then switched off to the 93 map untill i could log. I am running 50/50 with M5. During the meth tune the tuner told me that my system wasnt working right. I knew it was because i installed it and looked it over with a fine tooth comb. So we got the car off of the dyno pulled the nozzel out and proved it was working. We got it back on and finally he said he could tell? Is there anything else i should log? Im still learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 He also said that he could only get 19.5 psi on the meth instead of the usual 20 psi because of my turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I would add wastegate duty cycle to your ist of things to log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just added two new logs after work with wastegate duty cycle. Just noticed 4th from a low rpm builds boost then if you let off then back on it stays at WG pressure. Is that from the knock? Why is there knock in 4th but not 3rd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is beyond my pervue.. Are you sure there are no boost leaks? As far as I know...if your IAM is at 1, the ECU will not reduce boost or WG. I think there is a leak somewhere...your boost readings are pretty inconsistant. Are you running the stock BOV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The knock you are getting is not good...but i doubt it is the cause of your boost issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_GT_Pilot Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Are the 2 logs you just posted from your 93 octane map, or your meth map? They look like totally different maps from a timing and boost perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Keep in mind that the first 2 do not have engine speed data/throttle data..it is jard to tell what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 yes sir, stock bov. Pretty positive there are no leaks. My 93 map is rock solid, or so it feels. Thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just relabled all atachments to keep them in order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Another thing to note is that the 3rd gear meth pull was on from low rpm. If i would have came off throttle and back on i would be stuck at WG pressure like in the 4th gear log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It would help if you log these items (and only these, unless some suggest otherwise): Engine Speed Engine load Relative manifold pressure Boost Target Turbo Dynamics Knock Sum WGDC Total Ignition timing Throttle plate opening Mass Airflow (g/sec) Before you log check your IAM and if at 1 start your WOT log in 3rd gear 2000-redline. I would do a few runs of the Stage 2 map and a few of the Meth Map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_GT_Pilot Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I just ran both 3rd gear logs through Airboy's spreadsheet, and they are both showing almost identical performance. The last 3rd gear meth log you posted is much better than the earlier one where you didn't come close to your boost target. That being said, your meth map should be running a combination of stronger timing, more boost, leaner AFRs and it doesn't appear to be. Without changing either of these variables, meth is not going to have any significant gains. As for the knock in the 4th gear pull, you would be in a different area of the timing map. You're running 16psi at 2600 rpms versus 16psi at 3000 while in 3rd gear. That likely puts you in a different load cell that needs a little timing removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 I just ran both 3rd gear logs through Airboy's spreadsheet, and they are both showing almost identical performance. The last 3rd gear meth log you posted is much better than the earlier one where you didn't come close to your boost target. That being said, your meth map should be running a combination of stronger timing, more boost, leaner AFRs and it doesn't appear to be. Without changing either of these variables, meth is not going to have any significant gains. As for the knock in the 4th gear pull, you would be in a different area of the timing map. You're running 16psi at 2600 rpms versus 16psi at 3000 while in 3rd gear. That likely puts you in a different load cell that needs a little timing removed. Sounds like he never got my meth figured out, so he just changed some things to make me think he did. i hope not. All my meth pulls are inconsistant. if im on and off the throttle alot then mash it its like im stuck at WG pressure. But on my 3rd gear meth log i ran it down real low in the rpm, cruised, then mashed it. When i do that it builds boost??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_GT_Pilot Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 That sounds like a tune issue to me, but maybe someone else could offer something up. I had a pro tune on my car (I use that term loosely) a few years back and my car did something similar. If I just floored it I would run wastegate pressure. To hit full boost, I had to floor it then come off it quickly and floor it a second time. Not sure what he did to fix it ultimately, but he did after a few calls into Cobb. I've since given up on Pro Tuners and have self tuned my car since with much better results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsmith30132 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Sorry to hear that and i hope thats not the case with me. If it is believe me i will post it on here so no one else has the same issues. For now i will give him the benafit of the doubt. mine sounds almost the opposite to yours. I have to just floor it to build boost. off and on im at WG. thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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