05GT Guru Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 We were talkign about sti throttle maps a coupel pages back. I have one on my stage 2 tuen in my 5eat and i did notice a lot better response and control but still not as good as my performance cable cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 How much of your complaint is the throttle and how much is torque converter? In S#, there is no lag in the throttle response with the manual. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Judging by the fact that there are numberous people on this thread who have manual who are complaining i would say your wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 there is no lag in the throttle response with the manual.Yes, there is, and there is also rev holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatross Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 So, I'm starting to get an impression Subaru's Boxer Motor and ancillary systems [designed to be naturally aspirated] might prove just hunky-dory lugging around a slush-box Outback or base model Legacy. Unfortunately, I feel it falls far short of satisfactory when turbocharged, and placed in a car which is supposed to be "DRIVEN". I believe you can force feed any motor, with reasonable dynamometer results. A motor built to be turbo/supercharged is what's needed in our LGTs. Cheers, Albatross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 it is built to be turbo, hence the totally different bottom end that the n/a engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Yes, there is, and there is also rev holding. The delay is between your brain and your foot, the DBW is fine. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 +1 to that Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Judging by the fact that there are numberous people on this thread who have manual who are complaining i would say your wrong. Given the number of people who say that it is fine, you're welcome to be incorrect. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspecb08 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 S# still bogs the throttle response sucks. i had 2 sti's an 04 and 05 they were both stock and i feel like my 08 spec b couldnt even come close to those cars and the leg is stock too. i cant wait to get a tune just so my throttle response improves. everyone that has been in my car since i got it noticed the breaking up in the car. i will down shift into 2nd or 3rd and just floor it and theres a good half second of nothing and then it still only feels like 75%. SI-drive needs to be gone. give me all motor all the time screw this electronic throttle crap and give me a cable any day of the week bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 The delay is between your brain and your foot, the DBW is fine. Quoted for truth. The DBW system is indeed fine. Those of you who feel a delay are looking in the wrong place. You should log the throttle pedal position and throttle plate angle (just those two parameters, for the fastest possible logging rate) and stop on the throttle - see how many milliseconds elapse between the pedal hitting 100% and the throttle plate hitting 100%. I'm guessing it's within a few milliseconds. I've watched them in real time (with a few other things logged as well) and could not perceive any delay. They both hit 100% at the same time. I've got no doubt that what you're experiencing is real - I just don't think that DBW latency is the problem. If you semi-stomp it to half-throttle there is something that resembles a delay, due to the shape of the "requested torque" throttle map. Making it into a simple linear releationship solved that problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 S# still bogs the throttle response sucks. i had 2 sti's an 04 and 05 they were both stock and i feel like my 08 spec b couldnt even come close to those cars and the leg is stock too. i cant wait to get a tune just so my throttle response improves. everyone that has been in my car since i got it noticed the breaking up in the car. i will down shift into 2nd or 3rd and just floor it and theres a good half second of nothing and then it still only feels like 75%. SI-drive needs to be gone. give me all motor all the time screw this electronic throttle crap and give me a cable any day of the week bro There's you're problem. You don't just floor it. If that's what you do, then you deserve the delay you get. To get the best performance from the TBW system, act like you're squeezing a lemon under the accelerator pedal. Progressive, steady pressure instead of just pushing it against the firewall every time. Even with a cable-controlled throttle, that's the best technique. Heck, with S#, from 50-100% pedal position, you're at 100% throttle, so what's the point? 50% pedal position IS "flooring it." Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 There's you're problem. You don't just floor it. If that's what you do, then you deserve the delay you get. To get the best performance from the TBW system, act like you're squeezing a lemon under the accelerator pedal. Progressive, steady pressure instead of just pushing it against the firewall every time. Even with a cable-controlled throttle, that's the best technique. Heck, with S#, from 50-100% pedal position, you're at 100% throttle, so what's the point? 50% pedal position IS "flooring it." If I want full throttle NOW, Im not gonna squeeze a lemon under my pedal to get to that point. Im gonna put my damn foot through the floor. I want it now, not after I get done making lemonade. Secondly, if 50% is 100%, then this is the whole issue to start with. Why would Subaru do something that retarded? Why not give the throttle pedal half as much travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I can tell you that if I stomp my 5EAT from a dead stop, it will take a lot longer to build boost and I don't get the same rush of peak power. If I'm cruising in 2nd at 1800-200rpm, again, flooring it will delay the spool-up. If I squeeze it instead, it will take off a heck of a lot faster by building boost sooner and easier. So I'm not sure if this is an issue of the TBW system or the 5EAT slushbox, but there you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aigochamaloh Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 If you semi-stomp it to half-throttle there is something that resembles a delay, due to the shape of the "requested torque" throttle map. Making it into a simple linear releationship solved that problem for me. OK, but we have to modify that ourselves to make the DBW pedal feel a little better and feel more like a cable connected throttle. Hence, that is why we have a problem with it. Even with a cable connected throttle, it is sometimes better to roll on the power instead of stomping it, and I agree that the DBW systems needs to be used in that fashion to some degree. Bottom line is, DBW is cheaper to implement and there are usually less things to go wrong compared to a cable connected throttle. And it all boils down to what the engineers think 'comfort' is, and whatever they program into the damn tables. At least it's not as bad as Toyota's DBW. Those are really painful to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicmarsal Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 DBW>Cable..Subaru just gave the legacy a "laggy" system. My 06 350z was DBW and the difference in throttle response is like night and day. Even though the Z had more power and no lag because of it being NA, throttle response was much more crisp on rev matches and it was instantaneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas569 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 i ordered an update from Tuning Allince to address this issue, ill keep you guys posted on how it feels to my footsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 If I want full throttle NOW, Im not gonna squeeze a lemon under my pedal to get to that point. Im gonna put my damn foot through the floor. I want it now, not after I get done making lemonade. OK. Have fun with that. In the end, it is the recommended way to drive a car of any kind, whether it has a mechanical throttle or electronic. Those of us who make lemonade will be waving at you in our rear view mirrors. Secondly, if 50% is 100%, then this is the whole issue to start with. Why would Subaru do something that retarded? Why not give the throttle pedal half as much travel? Don't worry about this part of it. You have an 05, so you don't have to deal with SI-Drive. All I know is, if S is what pre-07s have all the time, you really don't know what you're missing with S#. I thought it was gimmicky before I drove it regularly, but now I spend the whole time after warm-up in S#. Yes, it is what the car should probably have come with by default, but it didn't and there's no point whining about it. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 i ordered an update from Tuning Allince to address this issue, ill keep you guys posted on how it feels to my footsy! I also contacted him about getting a tune with the STi throttle mapping. Will probably be ordering in the next week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The only STI throttle maps I've seen have been even more 'bent' (for lack of a better word) than the stock map in my LGT. I've seen at least one person complain that they feel even worse than the stock map and I think I know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The only STI throttle maps I've seen have been even more 'bent' (for lack of a better word) than the stock map in my LGT. I've seen at least one person complain that they feel even worse than the stock map and I think I know why. The STI throttle map is far more responsive, in noticed a big diff. Why would subaru put a worse throttle map on there premier sports sedan. As for lemonade, are you serious. Slamming the throttle to the floor is faster, as for slamming a 5eat to the floor from a stand still, no shit your gonna feel lag, your at 700rpms which= no boost. If you stall it to 3kish it will still take off like a bat outta hell because autos build boost better than manuals and they can hold boost far better when shifting. Im not saying auto is better as i love stick but some of your guys reasoning is just silly:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Why would subaru put a worse throttle map on there premier sports sedan. I suspect that the wacky curvature of the stock map is there to make the car feel more powerful than it is - during the initial test drives. After you buy the car and get used to it, you start to notice the side effects. Making my map simple and linear solved both problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 maybe their excuse is taht flooring doesnt produce the same effect because of the convoluted throttle mapping from stock. Hence my original complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Right, but then comparing squeezing the pedal down and just flooring is just a feeling, if you say squeezing the pedal make you go faster then when your at the track when you shift to you squeeze or slam when you let the clutch out. Because i always found slamming to net better results if the traction was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireB Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Broken Throttle Module is much more expensive than replacing cable I had to change mine and wow, it was $$$$. So I like the Cable better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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