05GT Guru Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Cable is faster, deal with it:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Actually, from testing done in the 70s in the aircraft world, electronic linkages react faster than cable, and you actually have to slow them down because humans need a certain amount of "lag" time or they willfeel the system is wrong... Sadly, most OEMs put too much lag in the system w/ DBW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 How can it be faster than instant, the cable is tight. the moment you move your foot down or up it opens or closes the throttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 There is give in the cable and the connections. The DBW can act at the speed of light given the proper authority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 well then we need to find that authority, cause even with the sti throttle map this car doesnt respond anything like my cable cars. and its not as easy to control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlgt21 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I had that STI tune. Didn't like it. It was fun for sprinted driving. But a PITA for bumper to bumper traffic and it was hard to just drive normal. Any push of the gas made it take off like a Bat outa hell. I switched back to stock. It's just to trigger happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 ^^^ good to know. That would drive me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 There is give in the cable and the connections. The DBW can act at the speed of light given the proper authority... Seriously haha who has the authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I had that STI tune. Didn't like it. It was fun for sprinted driving. But a PITA for bumper to bumper traffic and it was hard to just drive normal. Any push of the gas made it take off like a Bat outa hell. I switched back to stock. It's just to trigger happy. Guess its opinion, i loved the throttle response over stock. Mine is a 5eat though, so i didnt have to adjust how i moved the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 My mom has the '06 outback, and the rev holding, and slow response drives me crazy. Also the clutch does not have much feedback. I like my 96 much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 My mom has the '06 outback, and the rev holding, and slow response drives me crazy. Also the clutch does not have much feedback. I like my 96 much better. Air in the clutch hydraulics? I like the hydraulic clutch better than the cable. Cables has both built-in flex and some stickiness. And even if you lubricate them you will have to be careful with which lubrication you use otherwise you will get bad side-effects. Especially if the lubricant used turns to wax below a certain temperature. And - of course, differences between technologies are hard to compare between different vehicle types since there are so many factors involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatross Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I think the problem with Subaru's electronic throttle is its lack of "Feel". This is probably a similar complaint as those about cars endowed with electronic power steering, and electronically augmented braking, overly intrusive traction control/vehicle stabiliy control, etc, etc. For those who believe we should just get used to because every car will be this way in "X" years time, just look at the drubbing BMW took over "I Drive". They have made steps to improve the system. Maybe we should just not give in? Cheers, Albatross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 IIRC, unless they've changed it in the recent years, a common complaint was that it's not possible to have a 1:1 response ration on the drive-by-wire on a BMW, it's either for comfort so the throttle responds milder, or for sport in which case the throttle responds in a paranoid manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 All i knwo si the stock lgt doesnt respond fast enough and therfore makes it harder to control when driving in a spirited manner. And the STI throttle map works great on the 5eat atleast. I mean it responds faster and therefore easier to predict. I have a 1 hour commute each morning and afternoon that on a clear day would take 25minutes so i know how it works in bumper to bumper and i like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Living Legacy Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I'm thinking Subaru engineers were thinking about longevity and failure modes. I think it's pretty clear that the more moving parts, the more likely something will fail. Electronic throttle FTW...in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I guess, but i mean i havent seen too many problems with cable throttles. I have worked on alot of cars from the 60s/70s that have original engines and the cable throttle still works great. Maybe the guys at subaru dont consider 40 years to be a good long term number lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 I'm thinking Subaru engineers were thinking about longevity and failure modes. I think it's pretty clear that the more moving parts, the more likely something will fail. Electronic throttle FTW...in the long run. Id rather a cable snap than try and track down an electrical problem. On my rx7, if i pushed the gas an nothing happened, either the motor was off or the pedal wasnt connected to the throttle body.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 The LGT probably uses some sort of resistor or rheostat in the pedal assembly which feeds a voltage to a control module in the ECU which then talks to a servo which is connected to the TB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawlwawl06 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 yes DBW sucks....... even my sentra has it and it is very annoying. it doesn't even deliever 100% throttle when the gas pedal is on the floor, but yet when i half throttle it while trying to make a pass it goes 100% throttle..... (monitored by safcII) the only plus i see..... nothing to break/wear down/loosen over time That just about sums up the problem in my '06 N/A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Some of these complaints are solvable with a Tactrix cable and tuning software. Maybe all of them. For starters, making the 'requested torque' map simple and linear makes the throttle response a lot more normal. I don't think the lag you're talking about is due to slow response of the DBW system, I think it's due to the wacky shape of the requested torque map. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88377 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aigochamaloh Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Some of these complaints are solvable with a Tactrix cable and tuning software. Maybe all of them. For starters, making the 'requested torque' map simple and linear makes the throttle response a lot more normal. I don't think the lag you're talking about is due to slow response of the DBW system, I think it's due to the wacky shape of the requested torque map. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88377 I'm thinking about doing this. The DBW in my 09 2.5i is driving me up a wall. I've gotten used to it slowly and surely, but whenever I hop back into my MR2, I'm always grateful for my cable connected throttle. And is it just me or is this one of the worst feedback giving clutchs ever? I guess I can't say too much yet, my MR2 clutch is slipping so it doesn't have a sharp friction point, but the Legacy clutch is pretty dead feeling. Whatever, I love my Subaru despite it's quirks. And I love my MR2 for the make you think you're going fast noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatross Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I thought the slow throttle response had more to do with engine lay-out. It's the numbness which annoys me. I suppose I am used to mechanical feed back in a cable throttle, as air flows over and around the butterflies. My old SAAB 9000 seemed to rev faster, turbo lag and all. Cheers, Albatross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas569 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 isnt there a map/throttle tip in that get modded to make this better? didnt TDC offer this on their maps? id like to know cause i wouldnt mind "STI" like responce on my LGT and im getting an update from mike at tuning alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 My TDC map doesn't fix the surging. I noticed no difference in throttle response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Yes there is a map that can be revised to change the throttle pedal feel dramatically, see the link I posted above for a picture of the stock map. The STI maps I've seen are even more nonlinear than the LGT map. Stock maps in another market (Australia? I forgot) are just as nonlinear but they bend the opposite direction - instead of ramping steeply and then leveling out, they ramp slowly and then get steep. I can only speculate what they were trying to acheive with this stuff, but I can say that a linearized "requested torque" map feels much different and, to me at least, works a lot more like a throttle pedal should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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