ATTN: Tide, gumby, and the moderating team.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Let's step back a moment.

 

The main issue regardless of other interactions that Rage has had with different vendors is that either via misunderstanding or something else, he was told that an item was in stock (and it really wasn't') when he explicitly asked if it was or was not.

 

This is not to say that the vendor hasn't been a standup guy in the past, or many of his previous transactions had problems, or that his solution (refund) was unreasonable as it was very reasonable.

 

I believe that transparency and communications are really important in business and sales. If Rage was told that it would be drop shipped, or not really "in stock" and would therefore take longer to get we wouldnt be having this discussion.

 

If you are told something is in stock and then it takes far too long to be delivered to have been in stock and there is a lack of communication in the mean time, it is understandable to be upset. That has been magnified by his previous negative experiences with other vendors but it doesn't negate the situation.

[RaGe]

My take on this. Crap like this happens and it has happened to me with several vendors who will remain nameless. I would place an order and not get a tracking number or shipping information until a day, two, four days later or, in the worst personal case, a week later. I sat patiently for it to arrive and only inquired in one of the two cases as I was getting a bit worried. Josh @ Import Image has always come through for me. The thing is, people have different expectations and thresholds. Just keep in mind that the vendors on here are not always operating the same way Wal-Mart or Amazon would, when you place an order and an hour or two later you get a confirmation. For that matter, even "the big guys" like Amazon didn't ship an item for several days after I placed the order.

 

I simpathize with RaGe's experiences, but just keep in mind one thing that you learn when you work in customer service and applies here damn well. If you get off the phone with one customer that was angry and pissed you off, don't react to the customer you get next. I can tell that's what happened here because ...

Josh

 

So he's offering the best possible outcome when dealing with a sale that's not up to your expectations ... a full refund.

Next, RaGe

 

Only to be followed later on by RaGe:

 

You're basically making it sound like Josh was looking to bail out of this whole deal by issuing a refund when, in fact, it was your choice, he just offered an alternative. I'll also go on and say that your demands were fairly unreasonable given it was the week-end.

 

IMO, you overreacted due to your low tolerance based on previous bad experiences with vendors. Which is unfair to Josh.

I think some of us are holding the vendors to unrealistic standards given the fact that they're either one-man teams or depending on others for their own service. I simpathize with them because I'm in that very same position sometimes when I deal with MY customers.

If you want same-day shipment notifications and will accept no substitutes, then stop fishing around so much for crazy deals and just go to "the big boys" and pay the full price.

 

see this is kind of what chaps my ass about people on here. Everyone thinks that i am just so damn impatient. That had nothing to do with what was happening. Again. i will say it one more time. so pay attention.

 

I called and wanted to place an order. I wanted the blue innovate wideband. so i called. joked with him a little bit then told him who i was. i gave my first name and my username on the board. i asked him if he was in charge of the LGT site. he said yes, i am in charge of it all. I said well i wanted to see about ordering the above gauge. I asked if it was in stock. he said oh yeah. i said so you have it then right. he said yep. so i then gave all of my credit card info. so later that day i just decided to bump his thread, cuz i was anxious about the gauge. so i jsut wrote bump for shipping info. he got on there and said will have an update in a few. ok so no problem right. well he never got back on. so i figured he jsut forgot honestly. no big deal. so i posted a couple more times. then thats when i seen the post by him saying he was waiting for shipping info from innovate. so i thought hey, what do you mean waiting? i asked him if he had it in stock. so it made me mad that i was lied to. and i did not mention anything about a refund. he did. instead of wanting to try and work with me a little bit, its always a refund. now i will say it right now. me and him are talking via PM. the situating is being handled now. and i will leave it at that.

 

but you just think about it for one minute before you come on here nd try accusing me of having high standards or claim that i am being impatient. here read this.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89359

 

not too mention when i ordered this grill it was back ordered for about a month or so. So i am very patient, thank you very much. Even that above link, ross wilson is sending me pms all the time. and due to the communication, i dont care when it gets here. i honestly dont. so i am patient. it really does piss me off though that people think that some of these vendors shit tiffany cuff links.

[AKLGT]

Let's step back a moment.

 

The main issue regardless of other interactions that Rage has had with different vendors is that either via misunderstanding or something else, he was told that an item was in stock (and it really wasn't') when he explicitly asked if it was or was not.

 

This is not to say that the vendor hasn't been a standup guy in the past, or many of his previous transactions had problems, or that his solution (refund) was unreasonable as it was very reasonable.

 

I believe that transparency and communications are really important in business and sales. If Rage was told that it would be drop shipped, or not really "in stock" and would therefore take longer to get we wouldnt be having this discussion.

 

If you are told something is in stock and then it takes far too long to be delivered to have been in stock and there is a lack of communication in the mean time, it is understandable to be upset. That has been magnified by his previous negative experiences with other vendors but it doesn't negate the situation.

I have to agree 100% here. Whole issue would have been avoided if the words "DROP SHIPPED" were used.

 

I like Josh and I'll most likely order many parts from him still, regardless of this little issue. Communication and giving reasonable expectations is important when dealing with any online vendor or customer.

[Guest JessterCPA]

Under-promise & over-deliver. That's my mantra.

[fishbone]

I'm not acusing you of anything, I'm just stating my honest opinion. And I will also say that even though I don't necessarily see the tranzaction as you do, that doesn't mean I disagree with the purpose and message of this thread in general. I do agree that vendors need to be held responsible for their actions, I just think that it's unfortunate you picked Import Performance/Josh as the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The thread you linked to is much more of a better example.

Again,

and i did not mention anything about a refund. he did. instead of wanting to try and work with me a little bit, its always a refund

You are reading between the lines. He didn't bail out, he simply offered a solution at a point where he did not know which direction you were trying to go with. You obviously came across very unsatisfied the way it's been handled so a refund would be a logical recourse as to not waste your time further. Rather than post repeat messages few hours in between, once you've yourself determined that

well he never got back on

why not just call and straighten it out?

 

Wether or not an item is in stock or not, well, take for example some of the HID kit vendors on here. Their company and operation is/may be based in good'ol Canada. They take their payment there and send the shipping request to their warehouse in the United States. I know of at least one that never disclosed this upon shipping and/or being inquired "is it in stock" and answering "yes". Knowing this, I don't see how it's different from that example to this.

Heck, even Amazon or Best Buy's front-end isn't the same as their warehouse. If there's a disconnect between the warehouse and the front-end, yes, the front-end is made to look bad. It's unfortunate but that's how it is sometimes.

[Guest LGT-NY]

Fishbone - This had worked itself out, RaGe and Josh came to a peaceful resolution through a PM, why do have to come in and stir the pot again?

[RaGe]

i mean when i place on order, i just like track the item. here lately, i wont even place an order if i can not be given a tracking number at some point. i dont expect alot. i really dont. i just wanted to be treated with a little bit of respect since i chose to conduct buisness with the person, and honesty is a big thing too. dont make broken promises. and yes hope. if he would have just said, no i dont have it in stock, it will be drop shipped from innovate, all of this mess would not have happened. its just the fact that i was lied to.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

^^ I am the same way. A tracking number is a sign of good faith. Plain and simple.

[RaGe]

why not just call and straighten it out?

 

Wether or not an item is in stock or not, well, take for example some of the HID kit vendors on here. Their company and operation is/may be based in good'ol Canada. They take their payment there and send the shipping request to their warehouse in the United States. I know of at least one that never disclosed this upon shipping and/or being inquired "is it in stock" and answering "yes". Knowing this, I don't see how it's different from that example to this.

Heck, even Amazon or Best Buy's front-end isn't the same as their warehouse. If there's a disconnect between the warehouse and the front-end, yes, the front-end is made to look bad. It's unfortunate but that's how it is sometimes.

 

i take it you didnt see the post where i did call and left a message.

 

and yes, i placed an order fir HID's too. dont get me started:lol: waited a while for those badboys.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Fishbone, your analogy of a LGT parts distributor who posts on here to a giant like Amazon is a poor one.

 

That being said..

 

I have never bought something from Amazon that said it was in stock, paid for it, and then found out it was not in stock and I have bought a lot from there.

 

The right thing to do as the vendor admitted that he wasn't sure, and that they don't keep the model that Rage wanted in stock is to say "Let me check on it," or "I can't guarantee that it's in stock right now"

[fishbone]

Fishbone - This had worked itself out, RaGe and Josh came to a peaceful resolution through a PM, why do have to come in and stir the pot again?

Because the thread wasn't about the resolution of said tranzaction.

 

heightsgtltd, even on Amazon, you'll see items "sold and shipped by XYZ", so they don't exclusively sell Amazon stocked items. I actually did run into situations where said item was not in stock and I was issued a refund that instant by the 3rd party vendor. I think the analogy fits just fine, the problem is that vendors here don't disclose the "sold and shipped by" bit.

[RaGe]

i really dont wish to share the pms that me and him are exchaning but i will say this much.

 

i chose to send him a pm. the first time me and him have exchanged pms about this. but i sent him a pm and asked him if we could just work this out. and so we are. Do i think he is a bad person? no. i am sure he is a good guy. but if you look around and think about it, you have rambo, robsontuning, Mustang killer ( MK ), spiral smurf, all of these guys have been banned for doing another member wrong. and as soon as the members either got their money or recieved the item they paid for, then BAM they were banned. now do i think this guy should be banned, no. but i think from here on out, all vendors should be held accountable for what they say they will provide. Let both sides speak and then let the moderating team discuss it amongst themselves and form a conclusion to the situation. i think that is fair. i like steves ( mccorry ) idea. make a individual review thread for each vendor, make it a sticky, and post positive and negative reviews. we as a community though just have to make a habbit of using it. i know along with others i am guilty of not using it.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Because the thread wasn't about the resolution of said tranzaction.

 

heightsgtltd, even on Amazon, you'll see items "sold and shipped by XYZ", so they don't exclusively sell Amazon stocked items. I actually did run into situations where said item was not in stock and I was issued a refund that instant by the 3rd party vendor. I think the analogy fits just fine, the problem is that vendors here don't disclose the "sold and shipped by" bit.

 

You weren't talking about a third party vendor when you brought up Amazon were you?

 

That is very different than buying from Amazon directly.

 

As for what this thread is about, you brought the vendor into the discussion by name with your post

[fishbone]

There was never any doubt in my mind Josh was going to straighten it out with you. That being said, I don't think the 3 members you listed were vendors, at least spiralsmurf wasn't, not sure about the other two.

 

I understand your pain, but I'm left here wondering what could the moderating team possibly do in situations like the one with spiralsmurf other than what they are already doing? Involve a 3rd party escrow service but that's not feasible unless someone trustworthy volunteers to be the middleman and that would raise shipping prices anway. In other words, have a member here receive the goods and not ship it out to the buyer until he also receives payment from buyer.

[RaGe]

well you also have to understand, i chose the high road. if not then yes, i would have just been refunded the money, and i would probably still been really upset. but instead I chose to send the PM. I asked if me and him could just work something out, and i gave some background with me and purcahses on here. The link on the first page was just used as an example of things that go on. i know it seems as though this thread was directed at just josh. but it is not. i am not good at words, i am not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. i will admit that. some of these folks on here are alot better at typing and using words that i could ever dream to be. but i was just trying to get something done about broken promises when it comes to transactions on this site. i hope this clears this up.

[fishbone]

That is very different than buying from Amazon directly.

How do we ever know that we are in fact buying directly from the vendors on here and not having any item drop-shipped, short of them volunteering that information. I wasn't talking about purchases from Amazon directly, but rather the system that is at work. It's the Amazon front-end, Amazon steps in to resolve issues.

As for what this thread is about, you brought the vendor into the discussion by name with your post

And?

 

RaGe, don't feel that you have to justify your position man, I'm not invalidating anything you've done, I'm just offering my point of view.

[RaGe]

i know. i am not degrading your opinion. because you do agree that rules should be stiffer with the vendors. but the only question is, what. i am all about brain storming.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

And?

 

.

 

Because the thread wasn't about the resolution of said tranzaction.

 

You keep missing a fundamental point for some reason that has been made about 5 times.

 

If you tell someone you have something in stock and ready to ship, you better have it in stock.

 

It's as simple as that. If it's not in stock that's ok too, but you have to be upfront about that.

[fishbone]

That's what I'm trying to do as well.

I think we just uncovered something, to have the vendors bound to disclose what it actually means "in stock" to avoid any confusion or gray areas. It's either in stock as in you have direct control of when it's being shipped, wether you go to the post office yourself or send an underling, or "in stock but drop shipped" or delivered from an independent warehouse.

 

Other than that, people get screwed left and right on all sorts of forums when buying from members, so short of middleman service, there's nothing else you can do.

 

heights, my argument was that "in stock" is a vague statement. Technically, the item was in stock ... you can make an argument for both cases and that's the issue that needs to be cleared up.

[RaGe]

but respectfully debating about this, how could "in stock" be confused or be a grey area.? its one of those questions that is not a trick question. i simply asked do you have it in stock. key word being " you ". not them. i didnt ask does your supplier have it in stock? i asked if he had it in stock.

 

56.in stock, on hand for use or sale: There are no more blue skirts in stock.

[fishbone]

Canadian HID kit sellers also have their parts in stock all the time ... in a warehouse down in USA somewhere. So again, I think we need to set-up a rule about this. Call me dense if you will, but I don't see it as cut and dry as you may, I guess.

[RaGe]

you are dense.

 

 

[fishbone]

Shut up!

To me personally "on hand" makes a world of difference. "In stock", not so much.

[RaGe]

to me thats a simple question to ask. do you haev it in stock. but i will from now on ask this question.

 

Q.Do you have in in stock?

 

A. Yes.

 

Q. can you go touch it?

 

A. yes.

 

Q. Can you provide me with a shipping number?

 

A. yes.

 

Q. i am ready to place my order now.

[rc0032]

to me thats a simple question to ask. do you haev it in stock. but i will from now on ask this question.

 

Q.Do you have in in stock?

 

A. Yes.

 

Q. can you go touch it?

 

A. yes.

 

Q. Can you provide me with a shipping number?

 

A. yes.

 

Q. i am ready to place my order now.

and this would work in most car circles but for some reason Subaru owners are willing to take it in the pooper from vendors then make excuses for them