akm3 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I haven't heard anything that would suggest this, but I thought I'd ask. Do the GT and the GT Limited have the same suspension setup/geometry/spring rates/etc? I thought Subaru might stiffen up the ride on the base model (i.e. lighter, more performance model) and soften it up a bit on the more luxurious model w/ Leather, moonroof, etc. I hope they DON'T do that (soften it) but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure that they didn't? Thanks! -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I would imagine both would be the same. The Limited is just adding those interior luxury features that are apparent trademarks of the Limited model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 What about the differences between the 2.5GT models and the 2.5i models? Will the GT's get a more performance oriented setup? -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 The GT will probably get revisions in springs and dampers, but I can't imagine too stiff at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Freak Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I hope they don't stiffen the GT up compared to the 2.5i. I test-drove a 2.5i and the ride was perfect. It had nice tight handling while not beating you up to much. I'm afraid if they made it stiffer it would feel like an EVO, which is fun to drive but in my opinion would get very tiring over time. I've actually seen a lot of EVO's traded in this year and I think the stiff suspension is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I don't think it will be too stiff. Stiffness is irrelivant for me though as I don't have any problem putting big miles on in an STi. (Never ridden in an EVO.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']I don't think it will be too stiff. Stiffness is irrelivant for me though as I don't have any problem putting big miles on in an STi. (Never ridden in an EVO.)[/quote] It's people like YOU who keep the Spec B from coming over here! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Personally I could probably live with the Spec B, but I just wouldn't want the shorter 4.444 FDR. The rest of the gear is nice. :) Some people can't stand the least stiff Subaru suspensions. To me, an OB feels like a boat, the last ones at least, even the bloated FXT tires aren't very confidance inspiring to me. Too narrow a wheel IMO. I'd be happy with a nice little Sport Package that would include the STi links and springs at least. A happy medium between our stock and the teeth jarring action of the Spec B on anything but smooth tarmac as so we hear from the guys in the land of the rising sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I guess I'm just hardcore. I'd take the "harsh" ride for the better handling. Hell, I'd take the 4.444 final drive gearing! GIVE ME A SPEC B! :lol: They should at least consider/attempt a limited run of Spec Bs. That will show if there is a market for it or not. I know I'd be on the list. :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Control Freak, Have you driven a stock WRX? Can you tell us what the 2.5i felt like in comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 The problem is that "we" don't represent the Subaru demographic. Remember that there are people who own Audi S4s simply because it is the most expensive 4-series Audi. Likewise, people will be going for the Legacy GT Limited, because it is the "best" (read: most expensive) roadgoing Subaru. It would be Subaru's worst nightmare to lose sales to those people because the suspension is too hard. Much of why Subaru's efforts went into weight reduction was, as Paul Hansen observed, so that they could get away with softer springs and dampers, so that you can get ride comfort and handling. And isn't the Rev B Legacy in the JDM getting softer suspension tuning because of NVH complaints? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']The problem is that "we" don't represent the Subaru demographic. Remember that there are people who own Audi S4s simply because it is the most expensive 4-series Audi. Likewise, people will be going for the Legacy GT Limited, because it is the "best" (read: most expensive) roadgoing Subaru. It would be Subaru's worst nightmare to lose sales to those people because the suspension is too hard. Much of why Subaru's efforts went into weight reduction was, as Paul Hansen observed, so that they could get away with softer springs and dampers, so that you can get ride comfort and handling. And isn't the Rev B Legacy in the JDM getting softer suspension tuning because of NVH complaints? Kevin[/quote] Which is why they keep the "Limited" lineup, and keep it priced higher than the "Spec B" variant. Taking a chance with their largest market might prove profitable. :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I'll stick with Kevin on this one. It's just too limited to be considered feasible I'd imagine, particularly for this market. There are a number of off the shelf parts that would probably provide a new Spec B performance level but with a much more compliant ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 While I agree that this market is more limited, I believe that there IS a market for a Spec B variant. Just look at the success of the Impreza WRX STi. Nevertheless, I'll probably end up with a GT and mod it. No need to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Just mod it exactly to your preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Percisely what the aftermarket is for. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']While I agree that this market is more limited, I believe that there IS a market for a Spec B variant. Just look at the success of the Impreza WRX STi.[/quote] What's interesting is, rather than looking at the STi, which isn't to be considered in the same conversation as the Legacy, let's look at other GTs, such as the BMW M cars, for example. Those cars have a magical blend of firmness and compliance, that generally exists when a manufacturer has enough money to throw at a suspension. Unfortunately, if Subaru made a car cost that much, nobody would buy it, including people on the various Subaru boards. The STi is a performance bargain for what you get. What you don't get is a nice car, that is comfortable, quiet and...well...nice. That's fine, as long as you know what you're getting into. I took a ride in a BMW 540, a classic GT sedan. Amazing car for many, many reasons, but mostly in the way that it couples performance and comfort. You're cossetted, but if you want to put the hammer down, it's ready for the party. The new Legacy GT already does that, so why make it ride harder? That kind of customer doesn't want harder. Heck, even those JDM hardcores apparently don't want harder. I think that there is a market for a completely upscale Legacy GT. This is probably where something like an STi driveline with an NVHed tranny, giving the car 300hp. It would surprise me if the spring and damper settings are changed, if such a beast even comes to pass. The average consumer already thinks that Subarus have "too much road feel." You're right, the Legacy line needs a halo car that isn't the Limited. Complicating that is that the Outback is the big seller in the USDM, which is why the OBs are more expensive, and get more stuff than the Leggies. It's all very interesting, that's for sure, and I think that Subaru will come out with a halo Legacy, which is part of their general move to a premium brand, which will include things such as own-branded dealerships, rather than Nissan/Subaru/Isuzu, and stuff such as that. In that world, people will want an uber-Legacy. Unfortunately, that Legacy, to sell to people who will want to buy it, has to be road ready, rather than track/autocross ready. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 It would be nice, though, if Subaru were to offer a Spec B or sport-tuned suspension through SPT the way it offers the STi suspension for WRXs. It would be even nicer if they had the balls to offer a warranty on it if installed by a Subaru dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='gtguy'][quote name='Drift Monkey']While I agree that this market is more limited, I believe that there IS a market for a Spec B variant. Just look at the success of the Impreza WRX STi.[/quote] What's interesting is, rather than looking at the STi, which isn't to be considered in the same conversation as the Legacy, let's look at other GTs, such as the BMW M cars, for example. Those cars have a magical blend of firmness and compliance, that generally exists when a manufacturer has enough money to throw at a suspension. Unfortunately, if Subaru made a car cost that much, nobody would buy it, including people on the various Subaru boards. The STi is a performance bargain for what you get. What you don't get is a nice car, that is comfortable, quiet and...well...nice. That's fine, as long as you know what you're getting into. I took a ride in a BMW 540, a classic GT sedan. Amazing car for many, many reasons, but mostly in the way that it couples performance and comfort. You're cossetted, but if you want to put the hammer down, it's ready for the party. The new Legacy GT already does that, so why make it ride harder? That kind of customer doesn't want harder. Heck, even those JDM hardcores apparently don't want harder. I think that there is a market for a completely upscale Legacy GT. This is probably where something like an STi driveline with an NVHed tranny, giving the car 300hp. It would surprise me if the spring and damper settings are changed, if such a beast even comes to pass. The average consumer already thinks that Subarus have "too much road feel." You're right, the Legacy line needs a halo car that isn't the Limited. Complicating that is that the Outback is the big seller in the USDM, which is why the OBs are more expensive, and get more stuff than the Leggies. It's all very interesting, that's for sure, and I think that Subaru will come out with a halo Legacy, which is part of their general move to a premium brand, which will include things such as own-branded dealerships, rather than Nissan/Subaru/Isuzu, and stuff such as that. In that world, people will want an uber-Legacy. Unfortunately, that Legacy, to sell to people who will want to buy it, has to be road ready, rather than track/autocross ready. Kevin[/quote] You seem to forget, the Spec B variant doesn't cost much more than a standard GT is Japan. If pricing stays reletively similar to JDM pricing, I would definately jump on it. Spec Bs are also reportedly selling VERY well in Japan, from what I read. So why does the USA always get screwed? :?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']You seem to forget, the Spec B variant doesn't cost much more than a standard GT is Japan. If pricing stays reletively similar to JDM pricing, I would definately jump on it. Spec Bs are also reportedly selling VERY well in Japan, from what I read. So why does the USA always get screwed? :?:[/quote] I don't fault Subaru for not bringing out the Spec B yet. The whole idea of a high performance Legacy is completely foreign to US car buyers. Introducing a GT and a Spec B at the same time would only add to the confusion. If and when the new Legacy GT establishes its identity in the marketplace, Subaru might be willing to bring out the high-powered version (like it did with the WRX and STi). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='SC GT'][quote name='Drift Monkey']You seem to forget, the Spec B variant doesn't cost much more than a standard GT is Japan. If pricing stays reletively similar to JDM pricing, I would definately jump on it. Spec Bs are also reportedly selling VERY well in Japan, from what I read. So why does the USA always get screwed? :?:[/quote] I don't fault Subaru for not bringing out the Spec B yet. The whole idea of a high performance Legacy is completely foreign to US car buyers. Introducing a GT and a Spec B at the same time would only add to the confusion. If and when the new Legacy GT establishes its identity in the marketplace, Subaru might be willing to bring out the high-powered version (like it did with the WRX and STi).[/quote] With the huge following of the Impreza lineup, I'm sure a Spec B would sell well. I'm not exactly "faulting Subaru," for not bringing them sooner, but they know they have a market for these types of vehicles, so why hold out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I'm not sure you completely understand how Subaru has been hit in the past and it's still sour to an extent, therefore they are treading lightly and testing the waters. We would probably have had similar models to that of Japan and other countries if the original turbo Legacy models (1991-1994) would have been a much better success. Mazda had the samfe fate with the 323GTX as well as Mitsu with the Galant VR4. The success of the WRX was a start. Much of that success was due to both Gran Tourismo and from what I hear one person in-company hanging their neck out on the line. The gamble paid off, but to many, the stiffer suspensions still have some buyers stand-offish. It might be better... for certain scenarios, but as Paul has added numerous times, in many cases, the Spec B is just too tight for regular roads. A few people might say they'd want it, I'd bet a small portion of those people would actually drop the dough for one as insignificant a difference it would be. How about lets just try out the new GT and start critiquing it after we actually run it through it's paces, not based on speculation and as of currently to 99.99% of us, vaporware. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']How about lets just try out the new GT and start critiquing it after we actually run it through it's paces, not based on speculation and as of currently to 99.99% of us, vaporware. ;)[/quote] I'm with SUBE on this one. Be thankful that we even have a 250HP variant coming to our shores!! :D -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I'm somewhat familiar with Subaru's flops of the past and I can honestly say, times have changed. People aren't as relucatant of turbo cars anymore and (to me) Subaru has definately made a name for themselves performance wise. But you're right, this is all speculation. I'll be happy all in the same with what we get. It's better than nothing, but something inside of me just feels like Subaru is holding out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I think it should be kept in mind that currently, there are three totally separate types of Subaru owners in America. There are the relatively new WRX turbo owners, which make up the vast majority of enthusiastic owners on these websites. There is the much, much larger crowd of Legacy/Outback owners that happily bought into a vehicle that weighed over 3400lbs and only had 165hp at max. There is the Forester owners that were much like the Legacy owners, but in a soft-roader package. Now, when you think about it, the vast, vast percentage of Legacy/Outback/Forester owners of the past (and today, still) did not buy into their vehicles for firm rides and big power plants. While there have been complaints, it's not from the majority, more of the minority. That will change, I have all the confidence in the world of that. But past numbers is what Subaru is going off of, and given the consequences of a bad decision, it's hard to fault them for that. You generally are given control over billion dollar enterprises after a long track record of slow, careful and safe decisions. ;) IMHO, anybody that thinks they want a Spec B suspension should really experience one before demanding that it is brought over. Oh, and a Japanese GT suspension as well. I wager some people would think that the GT is way too stiff, and the Spec B something that STi owners could only stand. The Spec B offers more than just suspension, but if that's all you wanted, it's cheaper to get it via aftermarket anyways - it is roughly a $1500 jump to the Spec B. It's the shorter gearing and wheels that makes it a deal. The suspension changes would be much much cheaper than that (possibly only dampers). Cheers, Paul Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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