Infamous1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 merchgod has found the knock counter in the ecu logic. I believe he will add it to the next opensource defs. I have used it and it definitely works. It eliminates having to log IAM, FBKC, and FLKC. Now, we just need to log total timing and the knock counter (integer). No more guessing as to what is knock and what isn't. The knock counter tells all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT_NKY Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 below is my datalog... it's 08 modded lgt... it was pro-tuned... it seems that i also have a drop in timing after 4100rpm... so may be 08s are tuned that way (at least i hope so ).... any thoughts guys? http://www.upload2world.com/pic92/upload2world_899f2.gif p.s. this was a 2nd gear pull... logging was slow, due to too many parameters being logged... intake temp is so high, cause the car was sitting and idling for awhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 below is my datalog... it's 08 modded lgt... it was pro-tuned... it seems that i also have a drop in timing after 4100rpm... so may be 08s are tuned that way (at least i hope so ).... any thoughts guys? http://www.upload2world.com/pic92/upload2world_899f2.gif p.s. this was a 2nd gear pull... logging was slow, due to too many parameters being logged... intake temp is so high, cause the car was sitting and idling for awhile... With IAT like it is no one can really make constructive comments. Temps that high, in and of itself, will cause the ECU to pull timing. Don't waste your time, effort and gas under those circumstances. That said, it looks like a strong running car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 below is my datalog... it's 08 modded lgt... it was pro-tuned... it seems that i also have a drop in timing after 4100rpm... so may be 08s are tuned that way (at least i hope so ).... any thoughts guys? http://www.upload2world.com/pic92/upload2world_899f2.gif p.s. this was a 2nd gear pull... logging was slow, due to too many parameters being logged... intake temp is so high, cause the car was sitting and idling for awhile... Take a look at your learned Ignition Timing. I would be more concerned about the dip at 5126 rpm. it could be the timing delay in the logger. Do another log in 2nd gear but go all the way to 6500 rpm. I know that the VF46 has more potential than the VF40. Not sure how much yet, but it would be interesting if you could do a log with MAFv, MAFg, and IPW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 ^^^ If my memory is correct he has a Dominator 2.5r turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 ^^^ If my memory is correct he has a Dominator 2.5r turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Uh-oh, that's not a good sign.... http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88507 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 No. I was laughing at myself. I looked more carefully at the numbers and it is pretty clear to be an aftermarket turbo. I reserve judgment until I see a clean 3rd and/or 4th gear log. With a large turbo, I would be careful about any learned timing in the high load / high rpm range. That indicates consistent knock up high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 No. I was laughing at myself. I looked more carefully at the numbers and it is pretty clear to be an aftermarket turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Whats the tell tale sign that this is an aftermarket turbo?? Is it the timing at higher RPM or the fact that he is holding 18psi at 6100 rpm?? "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 He hit target boost of 19 psi at 4500 rpm. That's late for a stock turbo even in 2nd gear. He was able to sustain 18.72 psi at 5126 rpm. He was able to push 261 g/s. Stock turbo can't push that much air at that temperature regardless of mods or gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Whats the tell tale sign that this is an aftermarket turbo?? Is it the timing at higher RPM or the fact that he is holding 18psi at 6100 rpm?? Full boost not until 4400rpms and MAF g/s are dead give aways. Oh 6110 is the time the rpm is 5126 which the 18.72 psi could also be a give away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 He was able to push 261 g/s. Stock turbo can't push that much air at that temperature regardless of mods or gear. It can if you mess up the calculations and run it filthy rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 ooooohhhhhh....i was looking at the wrong column...thx guys..everything makes sense. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT_NKY Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 thanks for comments guys... i will try to do a different log in a day or two, and post it in a new thread... i am new to ap / opensource tuning... utec is just so much more straight forward :-) the way i understand a logic (might be wrong), there is a default ignition table and a learned ignition table somewhere within ecu... learned ignition advances default timing if ecu determines that it can run more efficiently... ecu can not advance timing higher than specified in the learned ignition table for the given rpm and load... the amount of advance is determined by DAM/IAM... DAM is a value between 0 and 1, this value is not dependent on rpm, etc.... so let's asuume default timing for a given rpm/load point is 6; learned ignition for the same point is 4; DAM/IAM is 0.5; ecu will run default timing (5) + DAM(0.5) * learned ignition(4) = 7 if DAM=1, then a timing for that point will be 9... btw, the above formula assumes no knock, otherwise ecu will make adjustments by pulling the timing... anyway, based on my limited knowledge, i did not get concerned (again, may be i should) about high learned ignition values, as those were specified in the learned ignition table by a tuner... since my DAM/IAM = 1 (of course i learned today IAM does not always reflect a true picture), i assumed that ecu feels it was safe to advance my timing to a maximum value specified in the learned ignition table... my total timing just prior to 5100rpm was 11.5 (4.5 of which was learned, so default was 7), and at 5100 timing was 9.5 (however the learned value was only 2.5, hence my default was still 7)... based on the above, my assumption was that it was not knock at 5100... the drop was happening because a tuner capped maximum ignition advance to 2.5 at that point for some reason (safety or whatever)... obviously, the above theory based on my limited understanding, and my guess on the values specified in the tables, as i can not view those at this time... sorry for a long post, i will try to do some better logs and post them here :-) any way i can get a beta version of romraider w/ a knock counter? thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 No. If your IAM < 1, then your car is knocking quite a bit. On the 07+ cars, logged learned ignition = IAM x DA + FLKC where DA = dynamic advance from rom table FLKC = fine learning knock correction from ram table On the 05-06 LGTs, KC = IAM x DA + FLKC + FBKC If your IAM = 0.5, the ecu is close to turning off boost control if it hasn't already done so. BTW, FBKC is always negative. FLKC can be positive but only if IAM < 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaze7469 Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 Yeah... that looks very similar to the other Cobb OTS maps. There's a knock in the 3rd gear log at 4401 rpm. Fairly consistent on most logs that I have seen. Log AFR #1, AFR Correction #1, and AFR Learning #1 next time. They are not normal WOT parameters that are usually logged but in your case it will be useful. Boost threshold is poor and timing is really low, but that's consistent with the Cobb OTS 07-08 logs that I have seen. It will be very easy to fix the boost threshold. I have a theory on why the timing is really low, but we'll find out in the next few months. ok i tried to get a good log for you but it would only log until 4000 or so rpm so i made two http://www.box.net/shared/liwtzgp444 http://www.box.net/shared/l89qi53wgg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Both those logs didn't have any knock in them. It never ceases to amaze me at how LOW the timing is on the 07-08 LGTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaze7469 Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 so am i gonna need a protune to fix the low boost or is it an ambient temp thing, when i did the logs it was about 101 out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT_NKY Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 No. If your IAM < 1, then your car is knocking quite a bit. On the 07+ cars, logged learned ignition = IAM x DA + FLKC where DA = dynamic advance from rom table FLKC = fine learning knock correction from ram table On the 05-06 LGTs, KC = IAM x DA + FLKC + FBKC If your IAM = 0.5, the ecu is close to turning off boost control if it hasn't already done so. BTW, FBKC is always negative. FLKC can be positive but only if IAM < 1. IAM of 0.5 was just an example. My IAM is 1.0 I guess I was confused on learned ignition on 07+.... the logged learned value represents dynamic advance and fine knock learning combined, while my assumption was that it was only DA... Mickeyd you are the man!!! Learning a lot. Logs will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT_NKY Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 so am i gonna need a protune to fix the low boost or is it an ambient temp thing, when i did the logs it was about 101 out i thought cobb fixed this issue on their maps... are you running the latest cobb maps? if you still having issues contact cobb... christian is actually pretty good in supporting their product... they can make needed adjustments or point you in a right direction on why you are not hitting full boost.... of course protune is better, but it will cost around $400... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 so am i gonna need a protune to fix the low boost or is it an ambient temp thing, when i did the logs it was about 101 out Don't bother with a protune until you have all the mods you desire. The heat will increase boost treshold and can sightly reduce boost pressure. However your boost isn't low for stage 1, remeber you are at a higher elevation (14.075 Atmo Pres) therefore the ecu will lower your boost. At your current peak boost (14.51) at sea level this is around 15.15psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT_NKY Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 just noticed that you are actually hitting 14.5psi, agree with ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 No. If your IAM < 1, then your car is knocking quite a bit. On the 07+ cars, logged learned ignition = IAM x DA + FLKC where DA = dynamic advance from rom table FLKC = fine learning knock correction from ram table On the 05-06 LGTs, KC = IAM x DA + FLKC + FBKC If your IAM = 0.5, the ecu is close to turning off boost control if it hasn't already done so. BTW, FBKC is always negative. FLKC can be positive but only if IAM < 1. Is the timing logic different on the 07-08 ECUs? (other then the 4 tables and the logic that is used to choose which one) Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 The text that you quoted is in regards to the change in SSM parameters. Subaru for some reason changed the SSM parameter. It really has nothing to do with ecu logic. However, the ecu logic for timing has changed significantly so tuners really have to be careful. There are multiply tables and they become active under various conditions. Take a look at the 07 STi rom. I believe the new timing logic will be similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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