scoobydoobie Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I bought a used AP from a member on here (still not here yet), and can't wait to install it. Cobb's site is giving me all kinds of HP figures (crank HP), I just want to know which figure is most accurate for a stage 1 93 octane map on a 5EAT. One dynograph says 285 HP. The description reads 290 HP. Then the "about map" .pdf says 273 HP. What is most accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I would think the map pdf would have most accurate info. Really though, a dyno is really only a good way to get a % increase for your mods/tuning. Take the same car to 3 dynos and it will likely give 3 different numbers. Which means none of it is "accurate". Best bet is to take it to a dyno for a baseline run (no mods) then go back to that same dyno whenever you add stuff and want to check the power output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkchu Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 im pretty sure the stg1 cobb ots map is 300hp on the 5eat, and subtracting 15-20% for auto drivetrain losses, that would put you at 240-255 to the wheels, but ive seen graphs as low as 220hp thereabouts. im sure this has been discussed a number of times so just giving you some info before someone yells out search :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 im pretty sure the stg1 cobb ots map is 300hp on the 5eat, and subtracting 15-20% for auto drivetrain losses, that would put you at 240-255 to the wheels, but ive seen graphs as low as 220hp thereabouts. im sure this has been discussed a number of times so just giving you some info before someone yells out search :] Depends on the dyno but 240-255 whp is usually about Cobb's stage 2 number. Stage 1 is about 210'ish whp IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 #1: don't get all bent on dyno numbers. Dynos are tools to help you figure where your starting and ending points are. They are NOT exact, so every dyno will read differently. #2: 5EAT will almost always read about 20 whp LESS than it's MT counterparts. This is usually due to the TC and how it locks up #3: the avg 5EAT stock will run about 190-210 whp on avg, depending on the dyno and day #4: Cobb OTS maps suck, so don't get too excited.... yes, better than stock, but realistically, you MIGHT see a 15 whp increase. Stg 1 is tuning only, so don't expect a lot unless you go with a protuned or even an etuned protuner map (ie PDX Tuning) Again, I like to point out the dyno #'s I got on my 05 LGT 5EAT with STI turbo swap, CBE, gutted OEM DP, gutted OEM UP, intake, etc. I logged 238 whp/231 wtq on PDX's Mustang Dyno. if you just look at those numbers, they suck. However, at the track, I ran 12.86 @ 105 mph. What you don't see, is that the car would not boost over 15.5 psi on RACE GAS, over heating, had a fan blow up on the TMIC, and getting exhaust codes. So, don't get focuses on the dyno numbers, it's the real world numbers that really tell you how fast you are and if you can "feel" the difference, is that difference worth it. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 I know dyno #'s differ, and conditions vary. Just seems like Cobb would maybe pick a number and stick with it rather than throwing various HP figures out. Their torque numbers remain consistent, but hp readings are where they jump around a bit. I'm not expecting huge gains, looking to lose the stutter, and improve torque/driveability (sp?). Also a great tool to have for future mods (DP,etc.) I remember seeing a thread a while ago PDX posted comparing their e-tune maps to Cobb's OTS maps. Having trouble finding it though, anyone know where it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I like to brag about the 290/305 numbers cobb touts with the stg1 93 tune, but to be honest, I dont believe its true. That car certainly does not feel like 290hp... engine or wheels. I have been too lazy to have it dynoed. I also havent really cared that much about it. The higher gas has risen the less I have cared. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I like to brag about the 290/305 numbers cobb touts with the stg1 93 tune, but to be honest, I dont believe its true. That car certainly does not feel like 290hp... engine or wheels. Info I have gathered has Stock as 195/220 whp and just Cobb Stg1 as 209/237 which would theoretically give you 261/296 at the crank and sounds more reasonable. I believe those are both 5mt #'s, for what it's worth. Where does Cobb say 290/305? That does sound high, more like Stg2. AK is right, OP... you can't look at the numbers too much. Plus, even if they do still have TDC maps (which I thought TDC "paused" for a while), why would you want to be one of the first to give them yet another try? I'm thinking PDX is the best option short of a protune right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Info I have gathered has Stock as 195/220 whp and just Cobb Stg1 as 209/237 which would theoretically give you 261/296 at the crank and sounds more reasonable. I believe those are both 5mt #'s, for what it's worth. Where does Cobb say 290/305? That does sound high, more like Stg2. Right here: http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/05LGTMaps.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Right here: http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/05LGTMaps.html Wow, that does seem high... I mean it's possible, but not the figures I was thinking. Has anyone tried the new Launch Control maps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Oh wait, did you also notice these are 05 maps? I was speaking to the 08's... 08's http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/08LGTMaps.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I have an 05 I didnt know they had different numbers for the newer cars. Why would that be anyway? I mean besides removing the cat before the turbo and replacing it with some sort of smog pump (which was a good idea) and that annoying si drive thing, what else have they changed that would affect it in that way? "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Oh wait, did you also notice these are 05 maps? I was speaking to the 08's... 08's http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/08LGTMaps.html Yep, knew they were 05 maps because that's what I've got. Picking my AP up from the post office tomorrow. Can't wait to flash stage 1 and get some real world feel for it. I've upgraded tires, brake pads, rear sway/endlinks, and added an AVO drop in so far. Need mo powah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I have an 05 I didnt know they had different numbers for the newer cars. Why would that be anyway? I mean besides removing the cat before the turbo and replacing it with some sort of smog pump (which was a good idea) and that annoying si drive thing, what else have they changed that would affect it in that way? There are many different things on the new 07/08's from our 05's. They even have a different turbo. That is why even the 08 STI is completely different results than an 07 STI. It's the little changes that add up and make a difference, even on the LGT's. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySTi07 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 It's true that there are things that changed from the 05's to the 08's but to say those changes are anywhere near as drastic as the changes between the 07 and 08 STi is over stating things a bit. The Ridiculousness is no more But you can have your very own piece of it. **The Ridiculous Part Out.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 wow, I had no idea. I test drove an 08 not too long ago and noted that it felt like a dog compared to my 05. I thought to myself tho "it cant be my AP making this big a diff.. theres just no way." "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Another factor I've heard was the tuning in the 07/08 is more aggressive and leaves less room to tune in anymore power without adding parts. Some even say that the 07/08 in stock form is putting out the same whp as the 05/06 is at stage 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Got my AP and flashed stage 1 93 octane today. Car was hesitant to start at first, but fired up (guess this is normal?). Feels smoother, and more torque past 3K RPMS. Can feel the turbo hit harder in the mid range. Haven't noticed any stutter any more either which is great. Off the line it still seems slow (5EAT) until the turbo starts to spool. Not a huge difference, but overall more torque and smoother engine seems worth it to me. It will be a great tool down the line when going stage 2+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Another factor I've heard was the tuning in the 07/08 is more aggressive and leaves less room to tune in anymore power without adding parts. Some even say that the 07/08 in stock form is putting out the same whp as the 05/06 is at stage 1. This is what I understand to be true. But either way, Cobb's quoted 05 numbers seem high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 wasn't there a change in the way HP was rated? I know the 07+ LGT took a "hp decrease" because oft he recalculation. Could that be where its coming from? "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnXpectedError Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Wow, 05-06 Stage 1 gains are far greater than 07-08 Stage 2 gains:confused: Why is this. The HP calculation method changed but not by anywhere near that much Surely this must have been discussed before:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Yeah, I'm busy right now but someone should search on it on post the link. I read up on this awhile back and just can't remember the outcome. I believe the 08's are actually faster, all else equal, considering we already have the UP. Plus, Cobb even stated the new models are tuned more aggressively. These '05 Cobb numbers just seem high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 you just want to brag that your car is faster than the other people with the same model cos its newer. True, you don't have the cat in the UP, but they replaced this with some sort of smog pump IIRC. I test drove an 08, maybe it was bad day but that car was SLOOOOWWW. I'm too lazy to look it up, and I'd rather not go out and find out that "OMFG TEH 08 IS TEH BESTZORZ AND TEH 05 IS TEH SUX0RZ" so I'll let someone else deal with it.. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Town Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 ^^^yep, pretty much. haha A stock 200x would feel slow to you, yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlyEvil Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 From what I've heard tuners say (whose opinions I trust greatly) the 07/08's from the factory are running leaner then the Sahara compared to the 05-06s. This is in attempt to improve emissions/mileage in conjunction with that stupid SI drive gimmick and results in a bit more power (not much though, don't kid yourself) off the showroom floor. It also can result in a lot of bad news not too far down the road... Yes the 07/08s don't have the cat in the up but the smog pump certainly counteracts any benefits there. Either way you wouldn't be making gobs more power, you might make it sooner than with the cat in the up, but in the real world even that isn't the case. I drove in an 08 LGT and it felt BRRRRUTALLLY slow comapred to my car, but I dont' remember what Stage0 felt like anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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