Euclid Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 On a serious note Nunuvyourwhateveryounameis. You could try the Volvo S40 T5, its turbo but I hear all the torque is available around 1200rpm if thats low enough for you....but still expensive Turbo VW's are the same. And they're cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 On a serious note Nunuvyourwhateveryounameis. You could try the Volvo S40 T5, its turbo but I hear all the torque is available around 1200rpm if thats low enough for you....but still expensive He said he can't afford the GT??? Hows he gonna buy a Vulva? Lastly, just to make a point that I didn't make in a previous post because I had a patient. If you ask anyone who's ever built or driven a car, he/she will tell you right off the bat that it is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of gearing! Senario, your car is rated at 280lbs-ft of torque at 2400 rpm (rediculous I know but apparently thats what the guy wants). Your cruising down the highway in 5th gear, RPM's holding steady at 3000, you find yourself in the need to punch the car. So you downshift (typical for most cars) and when you drop the car to 4th and the rpms rise to 3600; well ain't that a bitch cause your already past the peak torque!!!!! You mine as well have a car with one dang gear. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 This thread is out of control... How the hell is 5th gear at 70mph "low end".. Oh, we get AVCS, not exactly apples to apples. The GT only makes you feel like there is less torque <3000 rpm, because there is so much more torque after it. Butt dyno=crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 He said he can't afford the GT??? Hows he gonna buy a Vulva? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 lol OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTM 525 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Holy macaroni this thread got out of control......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFreeze2 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 As usual. YA RLY!!! Home of +2500 useless posts!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 As usual. I am innocent. Not once did I disrespect anyone!!!!!! OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunk10 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I didn't read the arguments above, but I'll chime in and say the LGT seems to have a lot more on the low end than my previous car, a 2003 WRX edit: skimmed the arguments on this page. IBtikkilounge:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 When car companies (or performance companies) are trying to assertain HP they do so by first MEASURING the torque... they then DERIVE HP from torque using the formula: HP=TrqXRPM/5252 torque is measured via a dynamometer. Either a wheel dyno (in the case of a performance shop) or an engine dynamometer... EITHER WAY... it calculates the speed at which the engine or wheels turn a shaft of a known weight... the rate of turning that known weight is TORQUE... Holy god dude. Have you ever written a factually correct post in your life? Once again, it's you vs. the facts, and, as it so happens, every other member of LegacyGT.com. Fortunately for us, the facts and everyone else are winning. Since the 30 other people in this thread have done a great job refuting just about everything else you have said, I'll stick to this one point: Your above statements regarding toque and the dynamomenter are 100% wrong. Dynamometers measure POWER and calculate torque. Torque is a STATIC force. Chassis dynos Dynojet measure how long it takes for the car to accelerate a known mass (the dyno rollers) and thus directly measure POWER. Look up the definition of power. Even brake-load dynos like a Dynapack measure work and calculate power and torque (work is the integral of torque/force, and power is the integral of work). From the Mustang web site: The inertial dynamometer does not measure torque directly, but instead measures the acceleration of a known mass. To arrive at a power figure, it applies the f = ma equation to equate the force being applied to the drum surface. Got it now? But, knowing you, I'm sure you'll still insist that you're right. High even torque curves are what REAL sports cars have... lots of power up top is what "boy racer" cars have. Now that's a good one. So I guess the Honda S2000, Lotus Elise, and Ferrari 360 aren't "real" sports cars! Amazing! -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The point is if you want a ALL AROUND fast car you NEED a broad even torque curve (line)... not a turbo charged 4 cyl that only makes power up top. The original Lotus Esprit was one of the best 'sports cars' of it's day and had, that's right, a 4 CYLINDER TURBO. No doubt, the later V8 turbo models were more capable, but they had to be to keep up with the market. Nunya - why are you even on this board if you don't own a Legacy and have no intentions of doing so? A word of advice to all.....IGNORE this guy going forward. He brings nothing to the table in the way of constructive info for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Nunya - why are you even on this board if you don't own a Legacy and have no intentions of doing so? QUOTE] Prob. just a troll... (who owns a K car) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Well he was just asking in another post about an O2 sensor on his 05 LGT..... something doesn't make sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 A word of advice to all.....IGNORE this guy going forward. He brings nothing to the table in the way of constructive info for anyone. Amen, brother. -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Well he was just asking in another post about an O2 sensor on his 05 LGT..... something doesn't make sense here. I saw that post too. Hmmm.....Looks like he has a 2.5i. His comment was that the GT was too expensive for him. Reminds me some old customers of mine......loved to argue that Mercedes was better than BMW becuase they offered a larger displacement V8. Or another, the United 777 pilot who argued that his E320 was a technically superior car than the E430 because it had DOHC vs. SOHC on the V8 model. This is called 'cost justification' in retail psychology, or CHEAP ASS for short, AKA 'LDS' or Lexus Driver Syndrome. Nunya was arguing that a 2.5i has better torque off-band than the GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Maybe he's just bitter. I've seen these on STi, 350Z and many enthusiasts cars by people who do not have the above mentioned cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Nunya was arguing that a 2.5i has better torque off-band than the GT. Well he can enjoy that better off-band torque for like .2 sec before i pass him enjoying my total package in every gear and every real world driving situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWortham Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The way I see it, the only way you're going to know which car has better low-end torque is by doing some thorough testing on a steady state & inertia dyno. It gets more complex when you think about the nature of turbo lag vs low-rpm pulls in high gears. For example, accelerating in 5th gear at 1500 RPM's on a turbo'd car will produce some boost, just not peak boost. Then you need to consider the amount of boost being produced at low RPM's vs the advantage of higher compression with the N/A Legacy. Then on top of that, consider all out first gear acceleration and the effect turbo lag has on your low-end vs the higher compression N/A Legacy. Personally, I think the Legacy GT is still going to have a more impressive low-end torque curve in all of these tests simply due to the low-boost that occurs at low RPM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The way I see it, the only way you're going to know which car has better low-end torque is by doing some thorough testing on a steady state & inertia dyno. It gets more complex when you think about the nature of turbo lag vs low-rpm pulls in high gears. For example, accelerating in 5th gear at 1500 RPM's on a turbo'd car will produce some boost, just not peak boost. Then you need to consider the amount of boost being produced at low RPM's vs the advantage of higher compression with the N/A Legacy. Then on top of that, consider all out first gear acceleration and the effect turbo lag has on your low-end vs the higher compression N/A Legacy. Personally, I still think the Legacy GT is still going to have a more impressive low-end torque curve in all of these tests simply due to the low-boost that occurs at low RPM's. Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonovUrbizniz Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The original Lotus Esprit was one of the best 'sports cars' of it's day and had, that's right, a 4 CYLINDER TURBO. No doubt, the later V8 turbo models were more capable, but they had to be to keep up with the market. Nunya - why are you even on this board if you don't own a Legacy and have no intentions of doing so? A word of advice to all.....IGNORE this guy going forward. He brings nothing to the table in the way of constructive info for anyone. I almost listed lotus too... I know they're turbo 4's... but they spool MUCH faster and do in fact have all around power. I am on this board because I DO own a legacy. Even if I didn't... how does that effect my knowledge... I'm a member of LOTS of boards and on many of those the most helpful contributers are NOT owners of whatever kind of car the board is dedicated to... I have experience with just about all facits of automobiles and have been working on or around them since I was 12.... Right... no constructive information in my posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonovUrbizniz Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Alright I'm throwing in the towel... My bit about the high broad torque curve is really a matter of preference... no it is not required to make a "sports car" as so well pointed out by Mazda RX family, Honda S2000, etc... However even if you are beyond your peak torque at higher rpm it doesn't matter... By virtue of the HP calculation (hp=trqxrpm/5252) the horsepower takes over once the torque starts to drop... giving you nice even power across the rpm range... As far as me saying that 3000 rpm is "up top" or high... that is not what I meant... What I mean is that if your car only has a 6-7k redline... you are NOT using very much of it effectively if you only start to BUILD power above 2500... Again this is a matter of preference as when you are running through the gears you'll NEVER hit below that RPM level. My point was that if I were going to buy a sports car... I would want one that you don't NEED to downshift.... Yes I do drive around below 3k, NO not when I'm getting on the car... just driving... If I for whatever reason NEED to accelerate quickly I would MUCH prefer not having to lose time downshifting. I'm not sure what it is about my tone or posts that is making everybody jump all over me... most of the things that are opinion I state that it's just that... As far as the facts... I don't think I've gotten many if any wrong... A lower compression identical displacement engine will make LESS low end torque than a higher compression identical displacement engine unless it was designed to do differently. HP is DERIVED from torque... OK so technically I was wrong that dyno's don't "measure" Torque... although I explained EXACTLY what "nick" corrected me on in my original post... I just stated that the "dyno measured torque" BY MEANS OF MEASURING A KNOWN WEIGHTED DRUM/SPINDLE'S RATE OF ACCELERATION. Which unless you can't read or are just plain dumb is EXACTLY what "nick" stated in his correction Anyway... I'm not trying to tell any of you you wasted your money on the LGT... As stated I wish I could have one... But my impressions of driving it were that it didn't have the "on demand" power I would be looking for in a "sports car"... NO that's not what prevented me from buying one... If I had the money I would have bought it... it's a great sport sedan/wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 There ya go...Nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I'm not sure what it is about my tone or posts that is making everybody jump all over me... Since you want to know, here it is. You are essentially a perfect case study in how to make yourself hated on the internet. You have accomplished this through what I have affectionately called The Douchebag Trifecta. What is that, you ask? It is three characteristics/personality flaws that, when combined in just the proper proportions, make everyone think that you are a total douche. Specifically: 1. You state your opinion or experience as if it was fact. Examples: "Rain-X ruins your wiper blades" "REAL SPORTS CARS... NEED a broad even torque curve (line)... not a turbo charged 4 cyl that only makes power up top." 2. You make broad generalizations that are factually incorrect (and don't admit you are wrong when it is so proven). Examples: "torque... it isn't derived from anything except a direct measurement... HORSEPOWER is derived from torqueXRPM/5252" "THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE THAT THE GT HAS MORE LOW END TORQUE THAN THE i" "if you are driving on the highway and you NEED to accelerate you NEED low end torque" 3. You have no sense of humor. Example: Everything you have posted on this forum to date. It doesn't help that you have an extremely belligerent tone about everything, either. The solution? My suggestion would be to change your username, change your attitude, and start all over again. Seriously. Just bail out and start over again with a clean slate. Then again, your posts have proved to be extremely funny and have kept me laughing for several days now. So on second thought maybe you should stick around, and keep up the good work. -Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 own3d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdanhires Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 own3d Shouldn't that be 0wn3d? :-) I tried to get that as plate in Ohio, but the BMV denied it.... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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