Sport light blinking

[fishbone]

That's true. It has been documented at the dealer at least. They have it on record that it's happened to me, what the code was, that they have reflashed the TCU with a newer, updated firmware and that it did not take care of the problem.

[3L1onz]

I just had the sport light blinking on my 05 5EAT Wagon and alas, it seems that for me at least, I need to replace the Front Vehicle Speed Sensor - which is in the tranny as opposed to the ones at the wheels. Of course Ultimate Subaru in Fredericksburg told me there was no sensor IN the tranny, which didn't help much. Anyway, it's like $350 just for the wiring harness that includes the speed sensor and a couple of other things. Won't be here until Wednesday. I just hope it fixes the problem as it's not going to be cheap!!! Car has 75,000 FWIW.

[fishbone]

Nice, 3L1onz, I am on the forums now to revive this thread with an update.

The dealer wanted to charge 90 bucks for each diagnostic so I said "screw that". Instead I went to my trusty shop again just 2 hours ago when the light came on [they are nice enough to not charge me for the diagnostics at all], but this time the code was C0108 which pertains to the Front Left speed sensor. I guess I cannot say 100% with certainty that the last time it was the front right, but I'm pretty sure it was. I cannot remember the code either.

 

So this is where we are at.

At the dealer the car bitched about P1706, rear speed sensor malfunctiont

At my shop it either complained about the front left and right, or front left twice.

 

Is there a chance that maybe their diagnostics tool is reading the codes incorrectly? I forget the brand, it was a big red bulky touchscreen tool. At first it would not retrieve any codes but upon retrying 3-4 times, it finally retrieved the C0108.

The sensor lists at $170 for the part plus 0.7hr labor [arount $50] for a grand total of $220. I don't want to just throw money at the problem.

 

So what do you guys think? What would you do if you were in my situation?

 

The Sport light is now blinking almost every other day, sometimes it blinked even twice in the same day. It never happens once the car is fully warmed up and I have been driving it for a while. It almost happens like clockwork on my way to work and back, the light will come on roughly in the same area, either as I am pulling in the parking lot when at work or about 5 minutes away from home.

 

One last thing I can think of doing and I kinda feel bad about soliciting so many diagnostics, is to wait for it to come on one more time and have the code pulled again. But how is that going to help since we've determined the present code are different from what the dealer pulled and the only uncertainty is wether or not the diagnostic tool at the non-Subie shop is accurate or not.

 

So ... what would you do?

[fishbone]

I remembered, my shop used the Modis Snap-On scan tool.

It looked just like the one on this site

http://www1.snapon.com/modis

 

The Subaru tech at my dealer used a piece of software loaded up on a Panasonic Toughbook, I'm gonna try to find out what software exactly.

 

I went back to my service papers from Duteau Subaru and indeed the first time the light blinked it threw P1706. Second time, although it was blinking, the tech wasn't able to retrieve any existing codes but the previous/stored code was P1706.

 

I hate not knowing wtf is going on.

[fishbone]

Just got off the phone with my dealer, I wanted to get their opinion since they had the records on file. I asked about the possibility of an incorrect code diagnostic on the Snap-On and he said no, the device wouldn't pull codes out of thin air, it's either there or not. I then asked that since at first it complained about the rear right speed sensor and now about the front left, what he thinks I should do. This is where he contradicted himself. He first said that just about the only thing we can do is basically fix what the car is complaining about [throw money at the problem, nice]. Then I asked if he could quote me on a price for the sensor, he said well, the code itself isn't sufficient to diagnose a problem, it's just a starting point. Bring it in to have it looked at, blah blah.

Nice. Well, at least I know the code isn't erroneous. But I'm still stuck in my dillema.

I'm downloading the vacation pix to have a look-see how hard it would be to replace the damn sensor(s) myself.

The weird thing is that the ONLY light that comes on is the Sport light, no ABS, no CEL, nothing.

I just hope this car doesn't have a gremlin that will end up being next to impossible to track down.

Thoughts? Could I ask one of you for a favor if you know a good knowledgeable Subaru tech with imagination rather a frigid whore that goes by the book, what he/she thinks?

[fishbone]

Am I boring you guys yet? I'm just typing as I'm brainstorming here.

Upon reading the 2005 6-thousand page repair manual that I got from the Vacation Pix thread, this is what I came across

 

Front and rear vehicle speed sensors, rear wheel speed sensor abnormal

If a fault is detected in either or both of the front vehicle speed sensor and rear vehicle speed sensor,

the vehicle speed information received from the ABS unit via CAN communication is substituted for

control. This enables normal quality shifting

 

 

So I wonder if it is the rear speed sensor as before and the car goes in "safe" mode but then freaks out for whatever reason about other sensors?

[3L1onz]

My trusted auto shop also use the snap-on 'reader'. I will warn you that according the stuff they printed out from thie database about the speed sensors - wheel-based not tranny - suggested a minimum of 3 hours just to get to the damn things. So think long and hard before you tackle it yourself. I don't remember what code I was getting but it was my very-trusted mechanic who told me what it was telling him and to check with Subaru first before he did any work.

 

It was at that point that Ultimate Suby told me there wasn't even a sensor in the tranny - so I told my mechnaic I deifinitely trusted and to order the damn part - even at $350. of course the difference for me is that all three lights are always blinking even after resetting...and I can noticeably feel an issue with shifting (mostly at low speeds) which would be consistent with the tranyy not knowing what speed the car was doing.

 

Well I hope we both get it resolved without a huge pocket outlay - but I fear $1000 leaving my bank account sometime soon. And the part doesn't arrive until Wednesday, so I'm pretty much car-less until then :o(

[fishbone]

Here's how it works.

The 5EAT relies on 2 speed sensors, both located in the transmission from what I've seen on the diagrams: a front speed sensor and rear speed sensor.

When either one or both speed sensors malfunction, the 5EAT relies on the other 4 ABS sensors to try and figure out what the wheels are doing. At that point it will throw the SPORT blinking and start shifting crappy in lower gears, namely 1st-2nd. You cannot go manual mode either, at least for a while.

I've decided to go to the dealer for this as yesterday when the code came up again and we used the Snap-On, the thing was unable to retrieve ANY codes.

My money is either on the rear speed sensor or a short in the wiring harness.

There is a long step by step process which you can do to test the sensor input and wiring harness and determine what is at fault. If the code pull is inconclusive from the dealer, I'll have my shop go through those steps first before replacing anything.

My mechanic agreed it's NOT the front ABS/speed sensor. In that case, just like you, I'd have an ABS light, CEL and CRUISE.

 

I'll keep you updated. Good luck to you. Looks like in order to replace any of the speed sensors you have to take the transmission off the car. I was quoted at the dealer around $350-400 for the rear speed sensor replacement, part and labor.

I downloaded the 6-thousand page repair guide from the Vacation Pix thread. With the right tools, you and I would have probably been able to fix this.

[fishbone]

Just got back from the dealer. The Subaru tech used the Subaru Select tool to pull the code and, sure enough, it was the P1706 as before.

A lesson learned. Not all code reader tools are equal and the Modis Snap-On will not read the transmission codes correctly for a Subaru.

The rear speer sensor can only be ordered as part of a harness.

The harness is going to cost me $332.10 and the part # is 24030AA120

3L1onz, the harness includes 3 sensors so it looks like it replaces both the front and the rear speed sensor plus a 3rd one which I am not sure what it is for.

Can you confirm it's the same part # you've ordered? If so, you should be covered.

 

The thing I don't get is that, according to the repairs doc I downloaded off these boards, the repair instructions for the sensors seem to show that you replace each one, the front one being the worse to do. Oh well, I'll see what it turns out to be.

[fishbone]

Just talked to my shop. The tranny stays on, the pan comes down, so this involves a fluid drain as well. One of the 3 sensors is actually inside the tranny so getting to it is the interesting part. Book quotes 3.5 hours of labor plus the part, so we're sitting at around 400 bucks for labor, roughly $600 total plus fluid.

 

It's what makes the Subaru a Subaru.

Thanks Subaru!

And no, sensors aren't covered by the drivetrain warranty.

[fishbone]

Any of you know of a good place to get the sensor harness online for cheaper?

Tried looking up the part number, tried King of Parts, got nothing.

Part # is 24030AA120

[3L1onz]

So I finally got my car back. Apparently there is a separate speed sensor that doesn't come with the wiring harness but is likely to fail also if one has gone - who knew. It sits external to the rest of the harness and I figured I wouldn't take the risk of it going out in the future and costing me a bundle in labor again, since the install is all at the same time. But it does cost an extra $110!!

 

So after I waited an extra few days for that to arrive, now that it's all done, it does seem to have taken care of the problem (well I would hope so right!)...but it also lightened my wallet my $900 - ouch!!!

 

Oh and the error code I believe was 720 by the way. Hope yours is sorted too and perhaps didn't cost as much as mine.

[fishbone]

I'm set to drop the car off tonight and they'll get to it tomorrow. What sensor were they talking about, I might want to look at that one too. Was it not part of the harness [it includes 3 sensors].

By the way, the part number 24030AA120 was replaced at Subaru by 24030AA121 which is what I got. It's $25 more expensive too. I just hope it's a new and improved part. The dealer did charge me the price for the old one though

[fishbone]

Haha, what the hell!

I dropped the car off yesterday at my shop and I wasn't expecting them to get to working until 10AM, so I figured I wasn't going to hear from'em until the afternoon or something. In any case, I just got a call back and the car is done. The transmission didn't have to come down [?] and they charged me 3hrs of labor [$200-something] and I got the mount installed for free too. Man I love these guys.

Maybe I was looking at the wrong sensors or the wrong repair manual but to replace the entire harness it looked like the tranny had to come down to actually open the front extension and crap. I will pick the car up and let you know if the problem wasn't fixed. I'm cautiously excited, lol.

3L1onz, did you have yours done at the dealer? There's kind of a big price difference between what I paid and what you paid so let's hope one of us didn't get screwed somehow. I'll ask to see the old part.

[fishbone]

Picked the car up, $230 grand total repair bill.

3L1onz, can you confirm the part # your shop used? I'm starting to wonder if you and I had to do the same thing.

[3L1onz]

Well I'll need to look at the part number, but they definitely had to drop the tranny to get to all the parts, especially the extra (rear sensor). I did get the updated harness, for like $350, plus $110 for the other sensor, plus tranny fluid, plus labor $300, which is what accounts for where all my money went.

 

And hell no I didn't take it to the dealer - the closest one to me claimed there were no sensors in the tranny!!! I used the same shop I and my wife's family and my brother-in-law's family have been going to for like 25 years. So I know I didn't get ripped off.

 

Anyway, I'll try to get the part numbers for you and let you know. Glad yours worked out cheaper though.

[fishbone]

Seems that the problem has gone away, no more issues with the transmission.

The mechanic didn't actually drop the transmission, he took the mount off to install my Rallitek so he was able to reach in there somehow and replace all the stuff he needed. Gave me the old part too, I looked at it and nothing visibly wrong with it. Maybe the sensor went bad internally, but no cut or bent or otherwise damaged parts.

So all in all labor was $230 and the part $325.

Noteworthy might be the fact I've been driving with this shot sensor for almost a year now. It started as a rare and sporadic occurence and escalated to a twice-a-day issue.

Hope this thread might help other folks who may have the same problem. It is interesting though that they have revised the part, I'd have expected more folks around here having had this issue?

[Gasaraki]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for all the info.

[3L1onz]

Seems that the problem has gone away, no more issues with the transmission...

Hope this thread might help other folks who may have the same problem. It is interesting though that they have revised the part, I'd have expected more folks around here having had this issue?

 

 

Well glad to hear yours wasn't as bad as it might have been. And I totally agree, with the revised part thing, you'd think this might be more common, like the whole wheel bearing issue. At least there was someone else on the forum that had a 'similar' at least, problem. I thought I was totally special and totally pissed off at Subaru. Still ours were slightly different issues I think, in that mine just died completely and would not reset for toffee.

 

Either way it may be another one of those things to look out for (especially on an 05) and it cost us both money we'd rather not have spent...

[mdulas]

Thanks for all the info, my car is now doing the same thing (about a month after doing Cobb Stg 1). I looked for codes with the AP but couldn't find anything. I guess I will take it to Subaru when I get it again. Guess I won't be trying to go to Stage 2 until I get all of this sorted out.

[fishbone]

AP won't read transmission codes.

What year Legacy is yours? If it's a 2005-2006 you can pick up a cheap VAG-COM cable on eBay and use a laptop to read the code.

Dealer will probably charge you $45 for it, not to mention exhorbitant fees if it is indeed the front speed sensor.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/using-ebay-vag-com-cable-datalog-96737.html

[mdulas]

Well definitely having issues now, getting the crappy shifting from 2 down to 1. Car is at dealer now and I am hoping they can reproduce the issue. I am glad to have gone back through this thread as I didn't remember you getting the crappy shifting. I was really beginning to fear a new transmission and was researching buying a new outback (the legacy sedan I have right now gets 30mpg!!! but far less fun to drive). We'll see what they say but I am hoping for the P1706 code.

[evil03mustang]

Yikes! I was thinking about shopping for an auto if the '06 doesn't work out but after reading this I think I'll stick with a ... manual.

[mdulas]

Ok so dealer just called, sure enough it's P1706. I was getting the clunk from 2nd down to 1st with the blinking sport light (this error has been happening for about 4 mos, now it's the first I am getting bad shifting). Dealer wants to replace the whole transmission because of the clunk and I am skeptical because of Fishbone's experience with the same symptoms and all went away with the new harness. Thoughts? How much help would SOA be here?

[fishbone]

The repair manual calls for a crapload of labor hours but it can be done in less. My independent shop charged me 2 hours I think. They dropped the trans at the front and unhooked the front speed sensor.